It's really good to see the breakdown into the four broad classes. The big question: should we as a society be allowed to force permanently unsheltered people with substance abuse and mental illness into some kind of facility for treatment? Most people who even want to do anything about these problems would probably say no but I think it's at least worth asking.
Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
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Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Homeless people aren't stupid. They go where they can live. Nobody wants to winter in North Dakota lol. More money in panhandling too I bet.
I thought that too about the weather but what about New York?
if you read the article you would know that the majority of the homeless population in nyc are sheltered as a 1979 class action lawsuit found that it was a constitutional right for the homeless to be sheltered.
Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I will repeat this every time someone uses “favorable weather” to explain California’s barbaric treatment of its homeless: nobody wants to die of exposure. You can die of expose at temperatures well above what housed people consider “comfortable.” The number of homeless people who would rather stay outside in your “favorable climate” versus being afforded the basic dignity of a roof and room is a rounding error.
Contrary to leftist belief just giving people a roof over their head doesn't magically fix things. Where it that easy. A lot of homeless are mentally ill, drug users and or antisocial. You can't just drop these people in a neighbourhood and everyone lived happily ever after.
I don't know a single leftist who wants to just drop the homeless in housing and forget about them. Usually, when people talk about housing-first policies, they're advocating for flipping the script: don't make treatment, abstinence or work a prerequisite for housing; give them a permanent address, a climate-controlled shelter, and a secure place to store their belongings. And then, concurrent to that, you can help them get a job and treatment for illness or addiction.
Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#64We're a country of 350,000,000 people. Leaving 500,000 outside simply because municipalities don't want them around is inexcusable. Solution in two parts 1. Make it legal to build homes where people live (looking at you California, specifically LA, SF, SV) 2. Build dorm style shelters for anyone that would otherwise sleep outside There's complicating issues like not enough addiction treatment and mental health facili…
We absolutely should build more homeless shelters. However many homeless people refuse to stay in current dorm style shelters because they don't allow drug use, or pets, or the other residents are dangerous.
The drug free thing is frustrating because it seems like it’s mostly optics.
Can’t be seen to be implicitly supporting drug use, so you have to deprive your residents of privacy, protection, and freedoms.
Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#65What about red states bussing homeless to the west coast? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattl... Until it's not possible to simply ship your problems away (kind of like how we handle recycling), governments are incentivized to do the wrong things.
The article you cited literally states that only 5 percent of Washington state's unhoused population became homeless out of the state.
Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that people in the U.S. so often only see homelessness through the lens of where they live. Homelessness is a unique problem in each city. For example, the west coast has favorable weather and a history of being a destination for people after they are released from prisons or mental facilities. In cities on the east coast there is more leftist-narrative style homelessness: people who were depending on…
I will repeat this every time someone uses “favorable weather” to explain California’s barbaric treatment of its homeless: nobody wants to die of exposure. You can die of expose at temperatures well above what housed people consider “comfortable.” The number of homeless people who would rather stay outside in your “favorable climate” versus being afforded the basic dignity of a roof and room is a rounding error.
Honestly spoken like someone who hasn’t been homeless or is close to anyone who has been homeless. A lot of people are severely mentally unwell and do not want shelter.
And the complicating factor is the percentage of people like this depends on the city! Eg Utah’s approach to homelessness probably won’t work for Oregon.
Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#67We're a country of 350,000,000 people. Leaving 500,000 outside simply because municipalities don't want them around is inexcusable. Solution in two parts 1. Make it legal to build homes where people live (looking at you California, specifically LA, SF, SV) 2. Build dorm style shelters for anyone that would otherwise sleep outside There's complicating issues like not enough addiction treatment and mental health facili…
What do you do if someone wants to sleep on the street? Where do you build these dorms? Are there barriers to living in these dorms? Sobriety requirements, job searching, etc? We should definitely try to solve this but I don't think it is simple at all.
> What do you do if someone wants to sleep on the street?
This describes an incredibly miniscule number of people. There are a lot of problems with existing shelters (as mentioned quite a few times in thia thread) so currently it's hard to disentangle "wants to sleep on the streets" from "doesn't want the available alternatives." Yeah, there probably are a few folks like this. Having an oversupply of 1% isn't going to break the bank.
Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#68We're a country of 350,000,000 people. Leaving 500,000 outside simply because municipalities don't want them around is inexcusable. Solution in two parts 1. Make it legal to build homes where people live (looking at you California, specifically LA, SF, SV) 2. Build dorm style shelters for anyone that would otherwise sleep outside There's complicating issues like not enough addiction treatment and mental health facili…
#2 people won't let you build shelters where it's affordable to do so. Seattle's homeless shelters should be built outside Moses Lake, not where a studio costs $300k+. For the amount we already spend, every single chronically homeless person could be housed in dorms built out there and pay for the social workers. Since they aren't doing that, it's clear the real motivation is not to help the homeless.
Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#69What about red states bussing homeless to the west coast? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattl... Until it's not possible to simply ship your problems away (kind of like how we handle recycling), governments are incentivized to do the wrong things.
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Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
The data doesn't really seem to support this, and my personal experience doesn't either. Most homeless people in my Californian town were living nearby when they became homeless. And though I didn't go to high school here, friends who did recognize people they grew up among the homeless. There's a far bigger difference between California and its neighbors: housing costs and availability of housing even for those with…
Yikes, application fees are illegal where I live. That's some pretty absurd rent-seeking. Is there a limit, or could an unscrupulous "landlord" post an ad with very low rent for a room, and live off the application fees without ever accepting an application?
Seattle had to pass a law requiring landlords to accept the first qualified applicant in part due to this occurring.
https://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/civil-rights/fair-housin...