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Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

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Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#51

Post by MomoXenosaga »

woodruffw wrote: post #41
nostrebored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people in the U.S. so often only see homelessness through the lens of where they live. Homelessness is a unique problem in each city. For example, the west coast has favorable weather and a history of being a destination for people after they are released from prisons or mental facilities. In cities on the east coast there is more leftist-narrative style homelessness: people who were depending on…

I will repeat this every time someone uses “favorable weather” to explain California’s barbaric treatment of its homeless: nobody wants to die of exposure. You can die of expose at temperatures well above what housed people consider “comfortable.” The number of homeless people who would rather stay outside in your “favorable climate” versus being afforded the basic dignity of a roof and room is a rounding error.

Contrary to leftist belief just giving people a roof over their head doesn't magically fix things. Where it that easy. A lot of homeless are mentally ill, drug users and or antisocial. You can't just drop these people in a neighbourhood and everyone lived happily ever after.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#52

Post by FPGAhacker »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #43
paxys wrote: post #22

> There are some exceptions. For one thing, despite being close to California, Nevada and some of the Montana-esque states saw big decreases in certain categories. Someone people would look at this and go wow, Nevada and the rest did a great job providing shelters and help to their homeless. I think a more realistic answer is that they just shipped them to California.

Homeless people aren't stupid. They go where they can live. Nobody wants to winter in North Dakota lol. More money in panhandling too I bet.

I thought that too about the weather but what about New York?

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#53

Post by cheriot »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #51
woodruffw wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will repeat this every time someone uses “favorable weather” to explain California’s barbaric treatment of its homeless: nobody wants to die of exposure. You can die of expose at temperatures well above what housed people consider “comfortable.” The number of homeless people who would rather stay outside in your “favorable climate” versus being afforded the basic dignity of a roof and room is a rounding error.

Contrary to leftist belief just giving people a roof over their head doesn't magically fix things. Where it that easy. A lot of homeless are mentally ill, drug users and or antisocial. You can't just drop these people in a neighbourhood and everyone lived happily ever after.

Nobody claims housing fixes those things, but it is an improvement over the same people sleeping on the sidewalk.

We don't need to put off the simple solutions because there are harder ones after that.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#54

Post by mulmen »

jljljl wrote: post #46
mulmen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When all of the available shelters are full this is not a relevant question. It is relevant when we are talking about building more housing. Why build something if people won't use it? > Near transit so people that can't afford a car can get around. There's not a shortage of underutilized land in west coast cities. Underutilized land near transit ? What do you do about the NIMBYs? > no, none of those situations are…

> It is relevant when we are talking about building more housing. Why build something if people won't use it? If the shelters are full, it's clear people are using them. If we start seeing vacancies in shelters, then we can worry about this.

I don’t doubt we need more space now. Vacancies in shelters would suggest we created too much supply, which would be a waste of resources. I prefer to take the approach of understanding the current needs and working to address all of those needs.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#55

Post by GaryTang »

I still have a difficult time understanding how increased homelessness is not a direct result of increased taxes and regulations. The data presented corroborates as much and though correlation doesn’t mean causation, correlation certainly doesn’t indicate a lack of causation either. We go to great lengths to justify the results when the simplest explanation is staring right at you.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#56

Post by klyrs »

epistasis wrote: post #32
paxys wrote: post #22

> There are some exceptions. For one thing, despite being close to California, Nevada and some of the Montana-esque states saw big decreases in certain categories. Someone people would look at this and go wow, Nevada and the rest did a great job providing shelters and help to their homeless. I think a more realistic answer is that they just shipped them to California.

The data doesn't really seem to support this, and my personal experience doesn't either. Most homeless people in my Californian town were living nearby when they became homeless. And though I didn't go to high school here, friends who did recognize people they grew up among the homeless. There's a far bigger difference between California and its neighbors: housing costs and availability of housing even for those with…

Yikes, application fees are illegal where I live. That's some pretty absurd rent-seeking. Is there a limit, or could an unscrupulous "landlord" post an ad with very low rent for a room, and live off the application fees without ever accepting an application?

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#57

Post by zwieback »

This is great work, data I've been very interested in. It would be really fascinating to get to county and city level, where I live there's been a crazy increase in people living in tents with severe mental and/or substance abuse problems. It does reflect at the state (Oregon) level but I think it's a bit misleading because it feels like there are magnet areas where all the increase happens in one spot.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#58

Post by woodruffw »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #51
woodruffw wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will repeat this every time someone uses “favorable weather” to explain California’s barbaric treatment of its homeless: nobody wants to die of exposure. You can die of expose at temperatures well above what housed people consider “comfortable.” The number of homeless people who would rather stay outside in your “favorable climate” versus being afforded the basic dignity of a roof and room is a rounding error.

Contrary to leftist belief just giving people a roof over their head doesn't magically fix things. Where it that easy. A lot of homeless are mentally ill, drug users and or antisocial. You can't just drop these people in a neighbourhood and everyone lived happily ever after.

I didn’t say it “fixes” things, whatever that can possibly mean. All I’ve done is counter the normal excuse for the barbaric practice of not providing basic amenities to the most needy.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#59

Post by mulmen »

cheriot wrote: post #48
mulmen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When all of the available shelters are full this is not a relevant question. It is relevant when we are talking about building more housing. Why build something if people won't use it? > Near transit so people that can't afford a car can get around. There's not a shortage of underutilized land in west coast cities. Underutilized land near transit ? What do you do about the NIMBYs? > no, none of those situations are…

All of the shelters where I live are full. The article describes increasing chronic unsheltered populations in west coast cities. Do any of these have empty shelter beds? SF and LA do not. "Underutilized land near transit? What do you do about the NIMBYs?" Tell them to take a hike. The state needs to get more involved with objective rules so we don't have a game of each neighborhood screaming NIMBY. > Of course, but…

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Telling NIMBYs to take a hike isn’t simple. How do you actually achieve that?

The question is not if we have enough shelter space. The question is if there are homeless who do not want shelter space. In other words do we have another problem to focus on in parallel.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#60

Post by r00fus »

What about red states bussing homeless to the west coast?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattl...

Until it's not possible to simply ship your problems away (kind of like how we handle recycling), governments are incentivized to do the wrong things.

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