Because of redwoodjs, I've gone off Svelte a bit
Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
181–190 of 571 posts
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#182I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason.
Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc.
Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel?
At least with React it is most close to the languages we already have learned, JavaScript, and HTML.
From what I can tell Svelte looks similar handlebars templating with it's own unique syntax variations... I can't count how many different versions of the same thing I've had to relearn again, and again.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#183Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…
We're all lucky that you got a polite, substantive reply, but please don't cross into personal attack like this in HN comments. It generally causes discussion quality to tank drastically. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Can't follow you, what do you mean/where did I cross into personal attacks? I highly appreciate Rich but the elephant in the room had to be addressed, especially on HN.
I wonder that I am the only one that questions his move and that you also approach me instead of welcoming a healthy debate. Whatever, I guess you just do your job.
Btw, when does HN get proper pagination and a darkmode?
Do I get shadowbanned now for asking too many questions?
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#184This seems like a huge positive step forward for Svelte and the community. Big congrats to Rich! I've been excited about Svelte for a while and recently chose to use it as the UI for a cross-platform video editing app ( https://getrecut.com ), with the back end in Rust. I've found it a pleasure to work with -- Svelte Stores and the Context system are especially great for sharing state, and the app feels snappy. Last…
Looks cool - what is the timescale for Windows?
Weeks to months, hopefully by the end of the year? We’ll see! A lot depends on what other challenges come up, heh.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lee from Vercel here. The governance of Svelte isn't changing – it's still the same independent, open-source project and community. We're just supporting Rich and helping the project grow!
> The governance of Svelte isn't changing This is the standard narrative when OSS contributors got hired but ok, I'd write the same. But then just tell us what was the motivation of Vercel's shareholders and CEO to acquire Rich for such a high price (he is the compensation and ESOP you pay absolutely worth) but what's your gain? "Just supporting Rich and helping the project grow" or just buying him out of the market?
On a high level: if Svelte succeeds, the Web succeeds and Vercel succeeds.
More concretely: we want Rich to help shape Vercel's support for frameworks as an open platform. We want to hear how, as a framework creator, the platform can best serve him. We project this work will have ripple effects like making Astro or Remix better on Vercel, or the next framework you invent. You'll hear about this work soon.
We want to hear what edge infrastructure would make Svelte the fastest for developers and visitors. We want to also help him build a better Svelte by connecting him with customers who are betting on it in production. We want to learn from his DX expertise so that we can make better products.
We are very excited about this and we think betting on Open Source for the SDK together with an Open Platform for infrastructure is the only way to succeed in our space.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#186I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
As a backend guy who moved away from frontend long ago for these very reasons, I have to ask: why are people downvoting this? Is it wrong? I'm genuinely asking, because from a bystander's point of view, it certainly seems like the pattern of the Framework Du Jour hasn't really slowed down much in the frontend community.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lee from Vercel here. The governance of Svelte isn't changing – it's still the same independent, open-source project and community. We're just supporting Rich and helping the project grow!
Glad to see you here Lee! > We're just supporting Rich and helping the project grow! I'll admit that I have a negative bias towards this... in spite of Basecamp+RoR, Mozilla+Rust, or all the great OSS HashiCorp makes, it's still hard for me to believe that business do anything out of the goodness of their heart. Is there a strategic goal for hiring Rich? is it that Svelte is used so much in house that it only made se…
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#188Any Svelte UI component libraries with good i18n and a11y support?
Carbon and SMUI are both good.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#189Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…
> Instead of thinking bigger, raising money (it would have been so easy, Rich, instead of doing proud conference talk after talk why didn't you talk to a VC??) In no world would taking VC funding have been easier. They’d want cash returns and hockey stick growth, and soon. So instead of focusing on making the framework as good as it could be, Rich’s attention would be diverted. When SvelteKit becomes a framework impo…
> In no world would taking VC funding have been easier.
Did I say that? Or that Rich should have taken the easier path? No, everyone should always take the harder path. But this is a deeper discussion.
> I don’t normally mean to sound uncharitable but your original comment is pretty uncharitable to Rich,
But your tone towards me is better?
> That you don’t see this speaks volumes to your understanding of how any of this works.
If you think so, fine, but I'm pretty sure that I've raised more money and more rounds than you but this shouldn't qualify me to be right or wrong. I focus on what you write and what I've written and I think I brought good arguments that a market turned into a monopoly and this is not great. Can we blame Rich, probably not. Can be disappointed and still respecting him? Yes.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you work with a designer? I’m convinced most of the push for JS apps as pages is mostly perpetuated by designers who don’t know how the DOM works and feel the need to redesign the wheel on every project. I work within a company that provides a design system and a platform of hundreds of generic component, but individual designers still always want to push their particular vision. I think if most designers took exi…
I find that Svelte is the most "jQuery-friendly" of the frameworks. I can easily add a single Svelte component back into other wise static pages without requiring anything other than a simple build tool to output the JS + css. It's really the best of both worlds – sprinkle it in where needed, or go whole-hog.
Yeah, I really like Svelte for this. I did a whole blog post this way, with little embedded animations to show various operations on linked lists. Each of the animations is a Svelte component, but the surrounding page is just a static HTML page created from Markdown (using Jekyll as the generator).
It's nice that Svelte components can be independently mounted like that.
Right click > View Page Source, and scroll to the bottom to see how all the Svelte components are mounted: https://daveceddia.com/linked-lists-javascript/
To be fair, the same thing would be possible with React or the other frameworks. I do like that it's only 29kb of JS for all those animations though (and most of that is the SVGs, I think).