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Reflections on E-Bikes

ebikes.neighbor-ryan.org

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Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#41

Post by blowski »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #28

> Previously, you had to be a serious cyclist to access this speed (and corresponding ability to simply exist on car-dominated roads), but now almost everyone can. Wow, interesting that they frame this as a positive. I'm a general advocate for e-bikes but this has been the absolute biggest drawback I've noticed with them: e-bike riders suddenly get all of the speed of a very fit cyclist but absolutely none of the roa…

You’ve put your finger on a real problem for me. I live in the UK countryside, and we get a lot of serious cyclists visiting here. The most dangerous pattern I see is occupying the middle of the road - which is fine when they’re doing 25mph in a 30mph road. But they stay there in 60mph sections, causing drivers to accelerate and veer round them. If we had more riders doing the same thing on ebikes, I imagine there’d be more accidents, not fewer.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#42

Post by nickysielicki »

hans-moleman wrote: post #37
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #28

> Previously, you had to be a serious cyclist to access this speed (and corresponding ability to simply exist on car-dominated roads), but now almost everyone can. Wow, interesting that they frame this as a positive. I'm a general advocate for e-bikes but this has been the absolute biggest drawback I've noticed with them: e-bike riders suddenly get all of the speed of a very fit cyclist but absolutely none of the roa…

You would rather this type of person drive a 2 ton vehicle? “Well people are going to have poor judgement” isn’t really a good argument against anything.

I'd rather they drive a machine that is fast enough to keep up fully with traffic, outfitted with proper safety mechanisms like ABS and turn signals, and wear protective DOT-approved safety gear.

Motorcycles are not that much more expensive but they're much safer. The only reason that ebiking isn't killing people is because it's new and rare, but when that changes it's obviously worse for people to be sitting on the edge of the road at around 30mph with nothing other than a cycling helmet and airpods.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#43

Post by aeharding »

Gigachad wrote: post #2

IMO, the number one hurdle for ebikes is theft. The things cost a decent chunk of money and there is basically no way to secure them properly. I have owned an ebike and it's such a fun way to get around, but I quickly sold it because I was in constant fear of it being stolen. And shortly after, one of my cheap non ebikes was stolen while locked inside my apartments bike storage area. I think electric scooters might h…

A good U lock for quick stops, and storing in a secure area overnight and at work does a lot to prevent most theft.

Additionally, renters/homeowners insurance. Just make sure it covers ebikes (some do not, like Travelers). Policies usually cover theft away from home.

Foldable bikes to bring in your home are also a solution if you do not have a safe place to secure your bike overnight.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#44

Post by petre »

londons_explore wrote: post #16
stephc_int13 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is clearly a pain point in need of an innovative solution, might be a sizeable market.

iPhones had a similar theft problem till they implemented decent anti-theft DRM. Now it's rare to see iPhones stolen. Ebikes could do the same. It would be a shame for the 'hacker' crowd, but with locked down firmware and all parts cryptographically linked by serial number, there would be no valuable parts to strip from a stolen bike.

VanMoof has some phone home anti theft as a service with integrated tracking. I guess e-bikes could use some kind if location tag embedded in a non removable part like the frame. Rental e scooters have anti theft feature that they sound an alarm and block the wheels if moved although it's useless unless it also phones home. I move them when people park them in our apartment building's courtyard which is private property and against the TOS.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#45

Post by mgraczyk »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #28

> Previously, you had to be a serious cyclist to access this speed (and corresponding ability to simply exist on car-dominated roads), but now almost everyone can. Wow, interesting that they frame this as a positive. I'm a general advocate for e-bikes but this has been the absolute biggest drawback I've noticed with them: e-bike riders suddenly get all of the speed of a very fit cyclist but absolutely none of the roa…

Just meeting anecdote with anecdote, but in my experience the overwhelming majority of accidents and near accidents with bicycles happen because either a driver isn't paying attention, or the bicyclist intentionally cuts in front of traffic to get hit or fuck with people (San Francisco).

E-bikes make the first case safer because, as described in the article, the faster you go the more time the driver has to notice you and slow down before crushing or swiping you. Similar but slightly different, you also spend less time in intersections when you go faster, lowering your chance of getting hit by turning or cross traffic

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#46

Post by chrisfosterelli »

mdoms wrote: post #38
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #28

> Previously, you had to be a serious cyclist to access this speed (and corresponding ability to simply exist on car-dominated roads), but now almost everyone can. Wow, interesting that they frame this as a positive. I'm a general advocate for e-bikes but this has been the absolute biggest drawback I've noticed with them: e-bike riders suddenly get all of the speed of a very fit cyclist but absolutely none of the roa…

So you think that you can calculate it as dangerous but they can't? It seems to me like the dangers of riding a bicycle fast on the road is really obvious and the e-bike riders are calculating the risk just as experienced riders are. Not everyone has your risk appetite.

> So you think that you can calculate it as dangerous but they can't?

I'm sure they know it's dangerous at some level but there's fundamental differences in riding patterns between someone who has thousands of hours in the saddle and someone who just got on a bike. For example in the last week I've seen ebike riders swap in and off the sidewalk, not use helmets, and change lanes without a shoulder check. Experienced cyclists don't typically do these.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#47

Post by mixmastamyk »

londons_explore wrote: post #34
mixmastamyk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is anti theft drm?

The ability to click "I lost my iPhone" and be confident that no thief can just erase the phone and use it himself. It normally involves ensuring the device has secure boot, non-rollbackable firmware, tamper-resistant storage for a 'when I last talked to my server' timestamp, and network connectivity to be able to talk to a server to get the lock/unlock status.

So results in untamperable lockdown next time it connects to icloud?

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#48

Post by [deleted] »

mdoms wrote: post #38
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #28

> Previously, you had to be a serious cyclist to access this speed (and corresponding ability to simply exist on car-dominated roads), but now almost everyone can. Wow, interesting that they frame this as a positive. I'm a general advocate for e-bikes but this has been the absolute biggest drawback I've noticed with them: e-bike riders suddenly get all of the speed of a very fit cyclist but absolutely none of the roa…

So you think that you can calculate it as dangerous but they can't? It seems to me like the dangers of riding a bicycle fast on the road is really obvious and the e-bike riders are calculating the risk just as experienced riders are. Not everyone has your risk appetite.

[deleted]

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#49

Post by Aerroon »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #26
mikesabbagh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you dont need to own an ebike. Bike sharing is already available in many cities and really awesome to use.

What if there isn’t one nearby?

Yeah, that's what I found to be the biggest problem for these citybikes (rental/bikeshare). If I need to be somewhere on time then I cannot rely on using one of those ebikes because there might not be any available.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#50

Post by fomine3 »

serf wrote: post #32
londons_explore wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this must be a US phenomenon. My used car in the UK costs me about $600/year plus $0.14/mile (including fuel, taxes, inspections, maintenance, depreciation, parking, insurance). And that's in a country with ~$0.09/mile in fuel taxes. Granted this is not the average cost of car ownership but a car chosen for low total ownership cost.

>I think this must be a US phenomenon. >a car chosen for low total ownership cost. I own and drive a car that I bought with the intention of owning and maintaining cheaply, too. I am fairly anal about maintenance, so the costs associated with that are actually inflated from what they could be. I live in Southern California, apparently a very expensive place to be. I own a reliable used car that I bought for fairly ch…

Insurance seems to very high compared to Japan. With good history, 35yr old, and having Prius, unlimited insurance with car insurance takes below $300/yr.

Tax is high here. $330/yr (after 2yr) and $210/2yr (after 5yr).

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