Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 386 posts

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#371

Post by FpUser »

boringg wrote: post #359
FpUser wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China." What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life.

I don't think you actually know understand what happened in the Joseph McCarthy era but thanks for diluting the terrible nature of what Joseph McCarthy did by conflating it to my idle comment about the increased misinformation around China and US. Your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like its part of the strong national Peoples Republic of China commentary that I was referring to that seems to be sprea…

>"Your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like its part of the strong national Peoples Republic of China commentary"

Lemme return a favor - your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like it is coming from an agent failing at the job and resorting to labelling anyone who disagrees with the party line as the agents of China.

The original theme - do not do mass surveillance. It looks like we are doing same things as China. You can find this lacking of substance / lie and I respect that. But labeling bearer as China sympathizer is total bollocks. I am not.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#372

Post by Jarwain »

gmadsen wrote: post #366
Jarwain wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the barrier is that if people getting canceled impacts their credit score, or if their credit directly impacts their ability to travel or get a job, there'd be a lot of social unrest. Especially in a country where people's perception and politics plays a huge role in the functioning of the government

I'd argue that it doesn't play that big of a role in the functioning of the government. Privacy abuse has been pretty non-partisan for decades. As Chomsky would say, the areas of intersection between the parties represent the institutional power outside the democratic process. For example, the American people do not have a choice in how to treat Snowden, he has been deemed a treasonous criminal of the state, regardle…

I don't disagree that privacy abuse for various goals, or some governmental policies (like the treatment of Snowden) are not beholden to public opinion. Although the counterargument might be the intensity of public opinion on the topic.

My main argument is specifically around whether the US is veering towards the implementation of a social credit score (which I think would look like having ones credit score be impacted by social reasons, and having the credit score be more pivotal to various civil liberties like travel). That's the kind of thing I think intense public outrage would shift government behaviors, especially since it's the kind of policy that would impact every single American

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#373

Post by edgyquant »

FpUser wrote: post #325
triactual wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s such hyperbole that it’s difficult for anyone to believe that it isn’t simply a statement made in bad faith.

>"...difficult for anyone..." Whole three of you sure qualifies for "anyone". >"...statement made in bad faith..." Labeling concerned users as Chinese agents is just that.

Saying a website may have pro-Chinese users pushing a narrative is nowhere equivalent to the accusations of McCarthy which had the backing of the US government and the weight if the law behind them. That is why your comment comes off as dishonest.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#374

Post by FpUser »

edgyquant wrote: post #373
FpUser wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"...difficult for anyone..." Whole three of you sure qualifies for "anyone". >"...statement made in bad faith..." Labeling concerned users as Chinese agents is just that.

Saying a website may have pro-Chinese users pushing a narrative is nowhere equivalent to the accusations of McCarthy which had the backing of the US government and the weight if the law behind them. That is why your comment comes off as dishonest.

Originally:

"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests"

Now:

"...website may have pro-Chinese users..."

Progressing from "really feels" to "may have" is of course nice touch. As for McCarthy - government backing or not, the general attitude of labeling opponents as foreign agents puts you on the same wavelength. It is not me being dishonest here.

Am I China government agent / sympathizer? Fucking no. Do I believe that mass surveillance is something that belongs more to China rather than "free" western world - yes.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#375

Post by yurishimo »

throaway46546 wrote: post #151
yurishimo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is true on a very shallow level, most landlords are happy to rent to "high risk" tenants with increased deposits if you talk to them directly instead of taking your initial rejection at face value.

More and more rentals are being gobbled up my big corporations. Finding someone to talk to who has the authority to make an exception can be nigh impossible.

Eh maybe. I think that largely depends on where you live. Granted, most apartment complexes are falling into that category, but venture out of the city a bit and if you're renting a small 2 bedroom house for $750/mo in Nebraska, it's probably owned by an individual.

Worst case scenario, even in a city, you could sublet or get roommates while you rebuild your credit.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#376

Post by vel0city »

user3939382 wrote: post #370
vel0city wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve provided enough evidence to indicate this is true. Have you? You've provided evidence for less than half a million, yet you claim its at least $2M. I do agree IMO they really shouldn't accept much money but you're claiming you've shared proof they've received multiple millions and yet you've only shared proof for less than half of that.

Yes, that amount in that time frame and from only those companies extrapolates out to millions over a larger time frame and with any companies in that category. Again, if anyone is really concerned they’re free to conduct detailed research. I feel extrapolating is reasonable enough to make a forum comment.

Showing that they've accepted a few hundred thousand is far short of showing they've accepted millions. For the facts presented all we know was there were only three years these companies made any donations to the EFF.

If I gave someone $1 today, $10 the next day, and $100 the day after, would you then assume at the end of the year I gave the person hundreds of millions of dollars? Clearly I'm increasing this by 10x every day, so obviously this should continue in perpituity, right? Or maybe these were three one-off things, and it would take further analysis to determine I only actually made these three contributions?

I don't know the EFF took millions from Facebook and Google. They might have! But the data given doesn't prove it, and extrapolating it is only a little less crazy than the extrapolation above. There's guesses, and there's facts.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#377

Post by user3939382 »

vel0city wrote: post #376
user3939382 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that amount in that time frame and from only those companies extrapolates out to millions over a larger time frame and with any companies in that category. Again, if anyone is really concerned they’re free to conduct detailed research. I feel extrapolating is reasonable enough to make a forum comment.

Showing that they've accepted a few hundred thousand is far short of showing they've accepted millions . For the facts presented all we know was there were only three years these companies made any donations to the EFF. If I gave someone $1 today, $10 the next day, and $100 the day after, would you then assume at the end of the year I gave the person hundreds of millions of dollars? Clearly I'm increasing this by 10x…

Since you seem so invested in this here’s another source: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/all-effd-up-levine

“ Over the past years, EFF has taken millions in funds from Google and Facebook via straight donations and controversial court payouts that many see as under-the-radar contributions. Hell, Google co-founder Sergey Brin’s foundation gave EFF at least $1.2 million.” You can argue with that guy about his sources too. He’s also making an even bigger claim since I wasn’t limiting my assessment to those two companies.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#378

Post by ineedasername »

rp1 wrote: post #303
ineedasername wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think instead we need people to not give away their personal information.

But why? I would like to be able to text my wife while she’s at work. Shouldn’t I be free to do that without sacrificing my right to privacy? Or should we just keep technology the same as it was in the 18th century?

Please take a closer look at the article. Directly collecting texts do not appear to be the type of data involved. If they were included in any way, it would be the result of users granting apps access to them.

Also please note-- and I should have made this note in my original post-- I'm. It saying people can avoid data acquisition by 3rd parties. Merely that users frequently give away far, far more than they have to: whenever they install an app that asks for more permission than necessary to function. Whenever they agree to the popup in browsers that as for access to location data or to receive notifications from the site. (I say something about cookies and JavaScript, but many sites are useless without JavaScript and navigating the dark patterns for those sites that allow cookie preferences is ridiculous. A good ad blocker will at least catch some of that though./

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#379

Post by artificialLimbs »

aspenmayer wrote: post #362
artificialLimbs wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I work for years at minimum wage? That doesn't seem like a good aim. >> Most folks in US can’t even afford a $400 emergency expense. It looks like they can, and fortunately the number of people in poverty continues to decline: https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american...

Seems like you’re not able to empathize with others. Way to completely miss the point.

I was under the impression we were discussing facts here, and not feelings.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#380

Post by throaway46546 »

yurishimo wrote: post #375
throaway46546 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more rentals are being gobbled up my big corporations. Finding someone to talk to who has the authority to make an exception can be nigh impossible.

Eh maybe. I think that largely depends on where you live. Granted, most apartment complexes are falling into that category, but venture out of the city a bit and if you're renting a small 2 bedroom house for $750/mo in Nebraska, it's probably owned by an individual. Worst case scenario, even in a city, you could sublet or get roommates while you rebuild your credit.

>I think that largely depends on where you live.

I suspect you are right. I walk down my block and every other building is owned by the same slumlord. It is bad.

Post reply on HN