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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#301

Post by bagacrap »

JasonFruit wrote: post #172
nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

Not a Supreme Court ruling: if there's no law outlawing it, there's no basis for them to rule against it. Do you really want five unelected, unaccountable lawyers deciding this matter?

The judiciary doesn't just rule on the constitutionality of laws (actions by the legislature) but also actions by the executive, for example vaccine mandates.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#302

Post by triactual »

FpUser wrote: post #196
edgyquant wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like equating someone asking why pro-Chinese sentiment seems to be taking place with McCarthyism is dishonest and a quick way to shut down a legitimate question.

May I ask what is "dishonest" about what I wrote? It is my opinion and I am entitled to it (yet). And how did it "shut down a legitimate question"?

It’s such hyperbole that it’s difficult for anyone to believe that it isn’t simply a statement made in bad faith.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#303

Post by rp1 »

ineedasername wrote: post #184
nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

I think instead we need people to not give away their personal information.

But why? I would like to be able to text my wife while she’s at work. Shouldn’t I be free to do that without sacrificing my right to privacy? Or should we just keep technology the same as it was in the 18th century?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#304

Post by judge2020 »

bagacrap wrote: post #301
JasonFruit wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Supreme Court ruling: if there's no law outlawing it, there's no basis for them to rule against it. Do you really want five unelected, unaccountable lawyers deciding this matter?

The judiciary doesn't just rule on the constitutionality of laws (actions by the legislature) but also actions by the executive, for example vaccine mandates.

Sure, but the CIA has existed since 1947- if it were illegal for them to gather information on citizens from companies who willingly give it up (for free or for sale), it would've already been decided and would apply to today's data.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#305

Post by judge2020 »

jkhdigital wrote: post #273
JasonFruit wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fourth amendment doesn't address the case where people voluntarily provide information to a third party which contracts with the government to pass it on. It's indicative of the attitude we should have in the matter, but it's not basis enough for a legitimate Supreme Court opinion — not that that will prevent one being given, mind you. There really does need to be a law preventing government from contracting with…

How is this not different from asking a phone company for the transcript of a private conversation? Or of asking a bank for account statements? It is the nature of any sufficiently complex economy that private entities will possess extremely intimate knowledge about their customers, knowledge which their customers "voluntarily" provided in the course of business. None of this has any bearing whatsoever on the constra…

This comment above does a good job of explaining how phone calls are different: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29170649

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#306

Post by Spooky23 »

hhaha88 wrote: post #296
literallyaduck wrote: post #165

Don't like it? Organizations like the EFF have been working to stop overreach: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/01/eff-fincen-stop-pushin... You can help financially, and contact each of your representatives and senators and request they act to stop this end run around the constitution.

Who is working to stop corporate overreach? I don’t really understand why the species should put its faith in industrialist billionaires given the history.

Great point. Insurance companies have access to way more private data than the government.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#307

Post by judge2020 »

vore wrote: post #220
LogonType10 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash. People say they want privacy, but people say a lot of things they don't mean. Instead I look at their actions. No one's willing to inconvenience themselves even slightly for privacy.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to want greater privacy in off-the-shelf products they buy. People shouldn't have to resort to buying SIM cards with cash (???) to preserve their privacy.

You can purchase with a debit card to preserve your privacy if you'd like if your debit card is held by an institution that values that sort of thing. But the point of buying SIM cards with cash is to be sure nobody, not even Visa/Mastercard or your bank can tie it back to you. There's a difference between data privacy and having a phone number that isn't linked to your person (besides if someone manually reviews CCTV footage), the OP is advocating for the latter.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#308

Post by FpUser »

triactual wrote: post #122
boringg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

Yes, this is common in user comments on several otherwise intellectually useful sites. It almost always takes the form of a reasonable take followed by a comparison to China and an insinuation that the US version may be worse. The commenters have the same playbook to work from because the Russians wrote it in the mid 20th century.

>"...followed by a comparison to China and an insinuation that the US version may be worse..."

I do not see insinuation that the US version is worse in this thread. What I see is people being concerned that we are on a dangerous path and building our own version mass surveillance, hence comparing it to China. Instead of shooting the messengers you'd better be concerned about where are we going.

>"The commenters have the same playbook to work from because the Russians wrote it in the mid 20th century"

Sure, I start my day by reading user guide written by Russians on how to fuck up the western world. Check under your bed btw. Maybe couple of them are hiding there.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#309

Post by judge2020 »

jkhdigital wrote: post #292
ineedasername wrote: post #182

Unfortunately, this isn't really the Fed's buying their way around the 4th amendment as the article states: it's people selling away their 4th amendment rights by giving their personal data & right to resell it to companies that will sell to anyone with the cash to buy it.

I'd recommend doing some reading on constitutional law and specifically interpretations of the 4th amendment. One cannot "sell" their 4th amendment right, because the text of the amendment places obligations on the government . The act of buying 3rd party data is tantamount to a search and seizure, regardless of whatever TOS was signed by the user who provided that data.

> The act of buying 3rd party data is tantamount to a search and seizure, regardless of whatever TOS was signed by the user who provided that data.

Legally, this is false, but obviously most people here would advocate for data ownership and control, even when it's transferred under a contract (regardless if it's via a checkbox, or signed and notarized).

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#310

Post by judge2020 »

varenc wrote: post #285

Babel Street, the firm selling data to the IRS, seems to say they don't have to follow the California CCPA requirements around data access or data deletion. Their only mention of CCPA is obtuse but implies it's their customers' responsibility: https://www.babelstreet.com/privacy-policy My understanding was that if a company has my personal data and is selling it, the CCPA requires that they allow me to put in a reque…

CCPA calls these companies data brokers[0], which are still subject to the CCPA. They might be acting facetious in saying that, since you'd usually have to also go to their customers to get your data deleted in addition to asking them for deletion [as in, they don't have to inform their customers to delete the data].

> Data brokers are subject to the CCPA. On the Data Broker Registry website, you will find contact information and a website link for each registered data broker, as well as additional information to help you exercise your CCPA rights.

0: https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa#sectiong

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