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Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

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Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So more effective than antidepressants? Great news!

Do you have a source? I don't think it is "more effective" in terms of the remission rate. That being said, in this hypothetical world where you can choose between shrooms and SSRIs, you would have to compare the side effects as well.

>Do you have a source? I don't think it is "more effective" in terms of the remission rate.

I actually look at the broader picture: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20616621/

There's clear evidence that the antidepressant companies have inflated numbers and the actual numbers seem to suggest it's more like ~7% effective on par with placebo levels.

The conclusion made is that we need to look at alternatives.

>That being said, in this hypothetical world where you can choose between shrooms and SSRIs, you would have to compare the side effects as well.

True. SSRIs even at same efficacy would be out of the question given the risk. Mushrooms on the otherhand? Kind of recreationally used.

Flipside, we have a very clear problem. As marijuana legalizes, we are going to re-evaluate all these other psychedelics. In addition to the political situation of the losing war of drugs. We may politically seeing marketing on why we need to legalize. So we need more info.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#112
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translating a dose in mg to the equivalent amount of dried mushrooms you would likely come across recreationally is quite difficult, but I believe 25mg equates to something like 4-5g of dried mushrooms which would be a full on trip beyond surfaces flowing like water :sweat-smile:

Isn't uptake through digestive tract unreliable? Mental disorders require extremely precise dosing, therefore probably should administer intravenously.

Most psychiatric medications are applied through eating pills, mind you, so this seems like a criticism that applies to a vast field of medications...

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#113
post #51

How does this get commercialized? I can't think of anything that's inherently cheap and easy to produce that you use for a few weeks and then never again that is also a financial cash cow the way most pharmaceuticals are. Disclaimer: I work for a pharma.

Why does it have to be commercialized? Personally, I think the best option is it gets mainstreamed by knowledgeble guides working with individuals through the process, the mushroom growing is done by small-scale growers who do it with the passion and love this Medicine deserves, and the pill-makers are kept far and away from it.

Why does it have to be commercialized?

In general it doesn't has to be, but in this case the research is done by a for-profit company which expects to see a return on their investments.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#114
post #110
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because you see the experiences as false compared to the reality you are now immersed in. If a big trip doesnt manage to completely change your belief system it has mostly failed in its effect. It is the change in beliefs that lead to a lasting result. If one leaves the experience denying the new experience and calling it false or calling it just a dream then it will surely fade and results will not last. This…

What happens if you were to do two trips in a row, would you then have to change your mind to completely different outcomes each time? Would that one time in the middle be invalidated by the later trip? How do you go about quantifying which trips offer enough change and which don't? How many trips do you then have to do to get there? How do you qualify a new set of beliefs as being the "right" one? Are YOU the person…

It is precisely because I care that I commented so that another one may find it.

Just for the sake of clarity I am referring to a level 5 trip.

Two trips in row with different outcomes? This is not a question that would be posed by someone who has experienced a level 5 trip. Why? It becomes self evident. But it is not something I can 'prove' to you. You have to see for yourself.

Regarding outcomes - One has either broken through or not. One will know when they have had an ego death and OBE. It is a very distinct experience. Some will still deny this even but much much fewer can deny an experience that powerful.

I have had many trips that were below a level 5 but only one that I would classify as a level 5 trip - complete loss of ego or ego death.

I was an atheist before that Big trip.

The Psychedelic experience has many common threads. I've read hundreds of big trip reports maybe thousands. The common threads become very obvious after a while. As obvious as the sunrise.

Yes this is my interpretation and the interpretation of some very old religions like Hinduism and its offshoot Buddhism.

They are not dogmatic in that you can believe whatever you want next to them while still considering them as truth.

From One there are many. Surely this does not even escape a mathematician. You cannot deny your own existence yet Science has very little to say about the nature of consciousness. In fact Science really has no clue when it comes to the mystery of consciousness. Its view is that we are meat puppets and the sum of our parts. Nothing more than we can see with our eyes. Why is this accepted as dogma but other belief systems are not?

Science itself is a kind of dogmatic religion. It is one that many take for granted as absolute truth. Older thought systems such as Buddhism have been around for much much longer. To assume they are somehow inferior to Science because of their age is a mistake.

All beliefs are valid. One can worship or believe as they wish to find happiness. It is only that they accept Science's answer as Absolute Truth and not their own direct experience after they have had a big trip. That is the waste. The lack of conviction in their experience as being real.

It is surprising that after such an experience one can walk away without conviction! They would have to try hard to forget and make themselves believe that everything is just as it was and it was all just a dream. That is the difficult part. Believing should be the easy part but the world pulls us back in. Our old concepts rush back in.

We put our belief back in the old way of doing things and back to the world we knew before that Big trip. The world of the 24 hour news cycle and Reddit. The world of our addictions, apps, and waking life. Because we feel comfortable there. It is challenging for us to change our outlook so drastically but that is what a Big trip challenges us to do.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#115
post #75
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Huberman Lab podcast episode on depression touches on this. According to Dr. Huberman the quality of the trip is not important, the chemical changes the brain function regardless.

Anecdotally, I've also noticed the most profound lasting positive effects on my mood after the worst trip I ever had- an absolute nightmare for no good reason (same people I'd tripped with before, familiar places, etc), but the following couple weeks I was on cloud 9. There are so many confounding factors, but at the time I was completely convinced the trip was responsible for the following positive period. The exper…

~70% of people who have "bad trips" don't regret the experience.

The terminology is actually being phased out, especially in the medical community. "Good" and "bad" might be appropriate descriptors if you're just trying to get high and have fun, but they're not quite right if you're trying to work on yourself and your mental health.

Some trips are easy, some trips are difficult, and just like in real life, it's often the difficult journeys which cause us to learn and grow most.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#116
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translating a dose in mg to the equivalent amount of dried mushrooms you would likely come across recreationally is quite difficult, but I believe 25mg equates to something like 4-5g of dried mushrooms which would be a full on trip beyond surfaces flowing like water :sweat-smile:

I did some brief googling on the topic earlier, and the best I could find was "anywhere from 5-20 milligrams of psilocybin per gram of dried mushroom". Which is very unhelpful for working out whether these people took a strong dose by recreational standards. :D

Erowid dosage pages can be helpful: https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_dose.shtml vs. https://erowid.org/chemicals/psilocybin/psilocybin_dose.shtm...

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#117
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I've also noticed the most profound lasting positive effects on my mood after the worst trip I ever had- an absolute nightmare for no good reason (same people I'd tripped with before, familiar places, etc), but the following couple weeks I was on cloud 9. There are so many confounding factors, but at the time I was completely convinced the trip was responsible for the following positive period. The exper…

Did you see lasting changes? Or they were mostly temporary.

I've never made it enough of a habit to feel like I've had long-lasting changes, but I do have one friend with serious life-long depression, who has approached psilocybin use methodically, as a means of treatment along with periodic ketamine dosing, and it seems to be working quite well. However, I'm not sure about long-lasting effects after quitting these drugs entirely. There are so many life-factors influencing 'depression'.

Everything is just strange when tripping, from the things you see to human interactions to life in general- whether the strangeness is beautiful or terrifying depends on the trip, but afterward it can have a lasting (at least long after the drug has worn off) child-like appreciation for things that might've been mundane, boring, or tedious. How long this break from monotony, or revitalization lasts, is hard to say.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#118
post #114
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you were to do two trips in a row, would you then have to change your mind to completely different outcomes each time? Would that one time in the middle be invalidated by the later trip? How do you go about quantifying which trips offer enough change and which don't? How many trips do you then have to do to get there? How do you qualify a new set of beliefs as being the "right" one? Are YOU the person…

It is precisely because I care that I commented so that another one may find it. Just for the sake of clarity I am referring to a level 5 trip. Two trips in row with different outcomes? This is not a question that would be posed by someone who has experienced a level 5 trip. Why? It becomes self evident. But it is not something I can 'prove' to you. You have to see for yourself. Regarding outcomes - One has either br…

I can only assume you refer to "level 5" from a personal source rather than DMT-Nexus (which only has 3 levels) or PsychonautWiki (which mentions levels rather freely and goes to Levels 8+, also spreading out the descriptions into various categories).

It's going to be impossible to convince you that your subjective experience isn't an absolute truth because it seems like the entire foundation of your approach to the discussion and psychedelics is based on that assumption. What you're entirely wrong about however is regarding the definition of science: science is (1) a set of logically consistent statements for a set of givens, and (2) meant to have its validity tested constantly in order to be invalidated so that a better fitting approximation can be found. Science, down to basic axioms of mathematics, is not debating "Truths" but only relative truths, and is making statements that for assumption A,B,C one will observe logical results X,Y,Z, where it perpetually strives to refine the process such that more logical links can be established and any assumption that leads to incorrect/invalid/uninteresting consequences can be weaned out. When in fairly abstract fields, even those assumptions are usually also explored over time and utilized by people as they see fit (maths without ZFC, relatively quick acceptance of relativity in the world of physics, and so on).

If your insights about science as a whole are so off the mark, I'm frankly not surprised that your assertions come off the way they do. And I happen to disagree with the stance that takes refuge in absolute truths (unless its validity were to ever be proven somehow), and even the mightiest of psychedelic trips of dozens of kinds (including ridiculous doses of DMT, Changa, DOM and what have you) have not fundamentally changed a thing about it since I wasn't susceptible to that belief in the first place. That you can just come out and say "well it was simply not enough drugs you took buddy!" is much more likely to be indicative of your wish for personal bias to be a truth than any alternative. And much like with religions in general, I'll respect your right to dive into your personal belief system, but my perspective will be wildly different from yours (and perhaps not as fixated).

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#119

Have a lot of experience with microdosing psilocybin, as well as with psychedelics like Ayahuasca. My experience with both as a means to remedy depression have been significant. It is analagous to having a lamp in a dark forest. It won't get you through it itself, you need courage, and other tools like meditation (your machete), exercise (your provisions) and intention (your compass) to succeed. But with it, everythi…

This is something I've been interested in for a good while now, and tried a similar LSD microdosing regimen without any exciting results. However, I also didn't pair the practice with meditation or regular exercise (some, not a lot). My main question is, how does one get anything like a regular, precise (micro)dose of the psilocybin? Volumetric dilution with LSD seems simple, because I know how much each tab contains…

Powderize a bunch of mushrooms and mix well so they are consistent. Then take a specific amount and adjust for potency. You then have a consistent dose for the entire batch.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#120
Psilocybin changed my life. It threw off the wet blanket of depression, which allowed my antidepressant to fully do its job. I can’t really explain it, but imagine if your depression was a jacket, and one day you just took it off.
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