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Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

devonzuegel.com

481–490 of 534 posts

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe undervalues their engineers - and it seems like it's some sort of cultural thing that favors management. It's something that I observed as well. > American optimism and ambition, really valuing engineers, generous equity and culture are a big part of this. Companies outside of America have been losing talent because they've been fucking this up, I expect things to get worse for them as geography is even less…

I'm from Italy but working in Switzerland for a FAANG company. My theory about the management-heavy way to do things in Europe is the following: in Europe is hard to fire someone unless there is a clear and willingly negligence from his/her part. Engineers' output is somewhat easier to measure than "fluffy" (pardon my lack of better words) tasks performed by management and hence it's hard to prove a manager is doing…

I'm unsure about this given I see the same attitude with loads of developers who carry a senior title, have been in the company for many years but barely outperform a junior with a few years of experience.

My more cynical take is management and management-adjacent roles are easier to climb to and more abundant, pay better than the equivalent technical-only title and since managers largely decide what is going on, they'll obviously provide job security for themselves in whatever obscene way possible. At the same time culture views a manager as something noteworthy and of a higher rank already, which loops back and reinforces itself through payment, work and lifestyle, which then loops back to the way culture views it. The same can't be set for most developers who aren't at least partially dabbling into self-employment, entrepreneurship or management themselves, which then further reinforces the manager > developer mindset.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#482
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've tried hiring in these locations (Italy and Spain) with some success, but it's pretty tough because the talent pool is so small. At some point, you weigh whether the lower cost of the salary is worth the extra time/effort spent adding headcount. Which is funny because we have no shortage of Italian and Spanish devs applying for our expensive European city offices. I don't know European urban dynamics that well,…

> We've tried hiring in these locations (Italy and Spain) with some success, but it's pretty tough because the talent pool is so small. Are you at Facebook? Because local talent doesn't matter as much. It's not like the Dublin or London office relies on local talent. I've had tons of colleagues from Romania move there. And when they get there, there are a ton of folks from India, Ukraine, China, Estonia, whatever, a…

The point is high value DBA from those places do not want to get jobs in those places. They want to get jobs in high COL places like London because they are nicer places for young well off engineers to live.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#483
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

check levels.fyi

levels.fyi proves otherwise.

Who in your imagination is making 350K in SV? In Dublin: Workday P4 180K EURO e.g. 207K USD Stripe L2 200K Euro e.g. 230K USD My mate just accepted Workday offer that had 200K signup bonus

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#484
post #34
post #3

I find this a bit far fetched, with as many problems as the USA has it still has a solid reputation as a place you can come and make a new life with low corruption, a justice system, free speech, affordability, and on the local/state level a government/bureaucracy that still works. Same goes for Germany and countries that provide a high quality of life for their people. I understand the idea, but there is a reason pe…

> low corruption I’m sorry, what? Ask anyone in NYC what they think of the corruption. Ask them if they feel that the taxes they pay are put to a good use. Ask what they think of MTA, of the unions, of the mafia connections. And ask any expat what they think of lobbying, a.k.a. legal corruption.

You Americans have no idea how you have it good, do you? If you think NYC is corrupt, let's trade passports, see how you like brasilia.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#485
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get cocky. In Europe you literally can't get a job paying 200.000€ per year as an individual contributor, except for US companies. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong and for the respective position to not be a beyond-senior-contributor thing (so maybe 0.0001% of jobs out there).

I’d love to hear about those US based companies paying EU based ICs $200k / year and for the respective position to not be a beyond-senior-contributor thing (so maybe 0.0001% of jobs out there).

Switzerland, London, Dublin, Amsterdam, Munich, Luxembourg FAANG.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#486
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get cocky. In Europe you literally can't get a job paying 200.000€ per year as an individual contributor, except for US companies. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong and for the respective position to not be a beyond-senior-contributor thing (so maybe 0.0001% of jobs out there).

> Don't get cocky. In Europe you literally can't get a job paying 200.000€ per year as an individual contributor, except for US companies You can find these jobs in London. And there are plenty of examples of this in Amsterdam as well [1]. But the point is that in Europe you don't need to make as much as you'd have to make in the US to have the same or a higher quality of life. If maximising your total compensation i…

Comparable housing in those places is at least as expensive as in similar US cities.

And to have a similar quality of life to the average US FAANG employee you will still need north of 120k € per year in my experience.

Plus in your list half the positions are exactly what I was talking about, higher than senior IC. You need to be incredibly skilled (top 0.5-1%) or incredibly lucky to get them. Though I appreciate that the other half is there :-)

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#487
post #482
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've tried hiring in these locations (Italy and Spain) with some success, but it's pretty tough because the talent pool is so small. Are you at Facebook? Because local talent doesn't matter as much. It's not like the Dublin or London office relies on local talent. I've had tons of colleagues from Romania move there. And when they get there, there are a ton of folks from India, Ukraine, China, Estonia, whatever, a…

The point is high value DBA from those places do not want to get jobs in those places. They want to get jobs in high COL places like London because they are nicer places for young well off engineers to live.

I'd be super shocked if this were the case for, say, Barcelona vs London.

My guess is that the language barrier is the killer. Everybody in IT outside of maybe China and Japan learns English so London is kind of easy mode.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#488
Not if we keep attracting it by being a desirable place to live (at least relative to others). The "American Century" was largely built on brain drain from totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany and the USSR.

If China threatens Taiwan it would be idiotic if the USA did not offer open work visas and fast path citizenship for any Taiwanese refugees that want to leave. This would be the best non-military option for dealing with that, and would help us benefit from brain drain.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#489
post #386

I mean, maybe? We had an offshore subsidiary in India. The problems with it were LEGION. 1. The key issue was overall quality. I'm sure it's possible to get good code out of an offshore team, but we couldn't. Their contributions to our code base comprise the lion's share of the technical debt we're carrying. 2. Time. Working asynchronously is really, really hard, even without any other issues floating around. I would…

> I'm sure it's possible to get good code out of an offshore team, but we couldn't. That depends on the salary, how much were you offering?

EXTREMELY competitive salaries. The company owner believes in paying for talent.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#490
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciated your comment. I want to believe what you are saying... but at the end of the day none of the people that I interviewed with were the final deciding factor in whether I was offered the role or not. This was decided by a hiring committee. I might be giving away which company this was at this point, I don't know if this is how it's done at other large companies. The thing is, I was asked to provide certain…

> I might be giving away which company this was at this point, I don't know if this is how it's done at other large companies. Yes, you are, it sounds like Google, and I had the same experience with them, except I had a degree. > I rocked my interviews (which was the feedback provided via the recruiter) A lot of times, recruiters aren't at liberty to provide truthful and direct feedback. Also, you might have done wel…

Thanks for the feedback and context, really appreciate it!
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