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Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

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Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#31

Post by Oddskar »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #21
Oddskar wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate the reputation of the US and underestimate how much it has rapidly declined the last decades. I also think you underestimate how much effort it takes to really start over and become properly integrated in a new country. It is a very enticing prospect for many to side-step this issue entirely and still get an almost unfathomable salary for some countries.

And I think you overestimate how much things have rapidly declined. Is the US's heyday in the past? Of course. It is on a decline. But if your entire lens of what is happening in the country is news channels and the Internet, you need a reality check. As Dave Chappelle said, Twitter is not a real place.

> But if your entire lens of what is happening in the country is news channels and the Internet, you need a reality check.

Not sure what your point is. How do you think people shape their opinions and perceptions on things if not via media and the internet?

What would this “reality check” consist of? I would move to the US for a number of years just so I can determine whether I want to move there? Should I read the collected works of David Foster Wallace?

It’s perception we’re talking about here. It doesn’t have to be rational nor accurate.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#32

Post by ctvo »

Oddskar wrote: post #10
bwb wrote: post #3

I find this a bit far fetched, with as many problems as the USA has it still has a solid reputation as a place you can come and make a new life with low corruption, a justice system, free speech, affordability, and on the local/state level a government/bureaucracy that still works. Same goes for Germany and countries that provide a high quality of life for their people. I understand the idea, but there is a reason pe…

I think you overestimate the reputation of the US and underestimate how much it has rapidly declined the last decades. I also think you underestimate how much effort it takes to really start over and become properly integrated in a new country. It is a very enticing prospect for many to side-step this issue entirely and still get an almost unfathomable salary for some countries.

> I think you overestimate the reputation of the US and underestimate how much it has rapidly declined the last decades.

How has it rapidly declined? Please list the ways. I don't necessarily disagree, but I am curious.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#33

Post by bwb »

Oddskar wrote: post #26
bwb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've personally been remote since 1999 and run teams from around the world since then. The largest was a company I grew to ~130+ people over 18 countries. I know you are underestimating the rep of the USA outside of politics and the dysfunction :) Remote is a great opportunity and one I've used at every company I've built. But, the thing that draws global talent is money, and American companies have all the money. If…

> I know you are underestimating the rep of the USA outside of politics and the dysfunction I don’t really understand. Why would I disregard “the dysfunction”? That’s very much at the core of what shapes the rest of the worlds perception of the US. Agree on the second point though. It does (potentially) globalise the job market quite a bit.

Tons of people want to move to the USA for nature, stability, pay, freedom of expression, freedom of speech/religion/life, low corruption, house prices are low compared to many many places, mixing pot, opportunity, american dream etc...

The power of the American narrative is huge.

I know so many devs in Brazil who want to live to USA or Germany, as well as many other places. Those places have problems at a much higher level than our current stuff.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#34

Post by cromka »

bwb wrote: post #3

I find this a bit far fetched, with as many problems as the USA has it still has a solid reputation as a place you can come and make a new life with low corruption, a justice system, free speech, affordability, and on the local/state level a government/bureaucracy that still works. Same goes for Germany and countries that provide a high quality of life for their people. I understand the idea, but there is a reason pe…

> low corruption

I’m sorry, what? Ask anyone in NYC what they think of the corruption. Ask them if they feel that the taxes they pay are put to a good use. Ask what they think of MTA, of the unions, of the mafia connections.

And ask any expat what they think of lobbying, a.k.a. legal corruption.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#36

Post by ctvo »

da39a3ee wrote: post #25
0xy wrote: post #7

I don't buy it, US tech salaries continue to skyrocket and we're nearly two years into pandemic conditions. Just over the last 6-9 months, salaries have markedly jumped. There's still a huge thirst for talent that isn't being quenched, and global pools don't help either. Facebook, Google and others have satellite offices all over to soak up talent elsewhere, but they're still ultra competitive in the US. They can pay…

> They can pay a senior engineer $350k in the US, or an equivalent experience senior engineer $100k in Europe. Why can they do this?

Because the rest of Europe pays 80k.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#37

Post by ndm000 »

polycaster wrote: post #19

From my personal experience I think that the most challenging factor with outsourcing is in fact the time zone. Being situated in Germany I see many webdev jobs being outsourced about 1 hour to the east and about all the way down to South Africa and Mauritius („Cyber Island”). This are the projects that work like normal. Then of course the vast majority is outsourced to contractors in India or China – but frankly com…

The North American equivalent is Latin America. I’m in consulting, and every new project has some set of near shore resources billed much lower than their North American counterparts. In most cases the only discernible difference is proficiency in English.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#38

Post by AlexAltea »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #14

In the short term, I think it's going to be a lot harder than this article lets on, but long term, it is abundantly clear: cushy developer jobs in the US are on borrowed time. Salaries may continue to go up for a little while longer, but they will fall to reflect the rest of the world catching up with the US. And that's a scary prospect for those under 35 now. And I don't think there's a way out of it. We embrace rem…

I disagree, I don't see how the supply/demand ratio of talent will significantly change by remote work.

Companies will pick from a larger pool of people. People will pick from a larger pool of companies.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#39

Post by bwb »

da39a3ee wrote: post #27
bwb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think developers are getting screwed in those places? I've worked with tons of developers in South America and they were very happy with their life, their benefits, their pay... Confused on why they are getting "screwed".

Because they're not receiving the same CoL adjusted compensation as Americans. Your attitude sounds a little patronizing.

Sure they are, like I said their pay is perfectly fine and kinda blown away you think it isn't. I don't understand what the complaint is on pay as they are making great money. What is the specific complaint you have or that you see?

This is text based comments, inferring attitude is a huge black hole of impossibility :)

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#40

Post by bwb »

da39a3ee wrote: post #25
0xy wrote: post #7

I don't buy it, US tech salaries continue to skyrocket and we're nearly two years into pandemic conditions. Just over the last 6-9 months, salaries have markedly jumped. There's still a huge thirst for talent that isn't being quenched, and global pools don't help either. Facebook, Google and others have satellite offices all over to soak up talent elsewhere, but they're still ultra competitive in the US. They can pay…

> They can pay a senior engineer $350k in the US, or an equivalent experience senior engineer $100k in Europe. Why can they do this?

This is mostly about FANGs and they can do it because they make $1m plus in revenue per employee.

These are senior positions so don't think this is normal. Average dev salaries are $60k to $150k in USA depending on a ton of factors.

The USA also has no social safety net so it's like comparing oranges to apples when you look at parts of Asia or Europe :)

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