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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#241

Post by stevespang »

LogonType10 wrote: post #203
storyinmemo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, that's not quite true. I can't get a phone provider that won't pen register my data off. It's not an option and it's entirely not practical to conduct life without a phone of some kind.

Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash. People say they want privacy, but people say a lot of things they don't mean. Instead I look at their actions. No one's willing to inconvenience themselves even slightly for privacy.

You can buy all the SIM cards you want with cash, but the numbers you dial will be made available and by gleaning the data they can determine who you are.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#242

Post by hunterb123 »

tehjoker wrote: post #213
hunterb123 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A criminal background check is not connected to your credit score and a convicted criminal charge is not the same as political dissent. Stop moving goal posts. I was arrested once and I got the charge expunged with community service. Hasn't affected my job applications so far.

Is there any evidence that political dissent drops a social credit score?

Let's wait for the CCP to answer that...

They may be too busy with genocide though.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#243

Post by pishpash »

JasonFruit wrote: post #207
nostromo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: "Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The fourth amendment doesn't address the case where people voluntarily provide information to a third party which contracts with the government to pass it on. It's indicative of the attitude we should have in the matter, but it's not basis enough for a legitimate Supreme Court opinion — not that that will prevent one being given, mind you. There really does need to be a law preventing government from contracting with…

The ruling shouldn't be on the Fourth Amendment but on unenforceable blanket ToS's. It would require a law or another amendment though. Any information collection that is not affirmatively allowed by your actively posting it yourself, or that you allow on each individual instance should be illegal.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#244

Post by RNCTX »

JasonFruit wrote: post #207
nostromo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: "Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The fourth amendment doesn't address the case where people voluntarily provide information to a third party which contracts with the government to pass it on. It's indicative of the attitude we should have in the matter, but it's not basis enough for a legitimate Supreme Court opinion — not that that will prevent one being given, mind you. There really does need to be a law preventing government from contracting with…

The amendment doesn't say "secure from government" or "secure from law enforcement." It just says "secure."

A person cannot sell themselves into slavery. Yet we allow the US government to endorse indentured servitude for immigrant labor, because corporations want indentured servitude.

Nor can a US citizen sign away workplace safety rights, legally. Yet we allow US construction companies to rampantly hire off-the-books undocumented labor so that they can freely ignore workplace safety rights, since no one will exist to make claims against them.

It would have been perfectly reasonable for a court to broadly ban surveillance of individuals by telecom companies back in the 1990s, based on the same principles that those courts have willfully violated on behalf of corporations in the other examples above.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#245

Post by pishpash »

RNCTX wrote: post #244
JasonFruit wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fourth amendment doesn't address the case where people voluntarily provide information to a third party which contracts with the government to pass it on. It's indicative of the attitude we should have in the matter, but it's not basis enough for a legitimate Supreme Court opinion — not that that will prevent one being given, mind you. There really does need to be a law preventing government from contracting with…

The amendment doesn't say "secure from government" or "secure from law enforcement." It just says "secure." A person cannot sell themselves into slavery. Yet we allow the US government to endorse indentured servitude for immigrant labor, because corporations want indentured servitude. Nor can a US citizen sign away workplace safety rights, legally. Yet we allow US construction companies to rampantly hire off-the-book…

It doesn't bind private persons, but it can certainly be argued that by the government making a purchase, the collection (even if retroactive) is pursuant to government direction through the incentive or interest nexus, and therefore the collection itself should be unconstitutional as soon as the government makes one purchase.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#246

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

We should be asking why the fuck this is for sale. Why is this okay? I hate this new normal but I look around and nobody cares. Nobody I talk to IRL gives a shit. This is our reality. How do we learn to navigate this strange new post privacy environment?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#247

Post by Ansil849 »

LogonType10 wrote: post #203
storyinmemo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, that's not quite true. I can't get a phone provider that won't pen register my data off. It's not an option and it's entirely not practical to conduct life without a phone of some kind.

Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash. People say they want privacy, but people say a lot of things they don't mean. Instead I look at their actions. No one's willing to inconvenience themselves even slightly for privacy.

> Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash.

Where can you buy a SIM card with cash and not have to show any ID? And for bonus points: where you will also not be recorded on CCTV doing so.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#248

Post by LogonType10 »

Zak wrote: post #240
LogonType10 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want intelligence agencies to enforce the US criminal code?

Certainly not. I want US intelligence agencies to take action against foreign threat actors to reduce their capacity to cause harm to US citizens and infrastructure.

So if the FBI can arrest them, they're criminals and we should follow criminal procedure, but if the FBI says they can't arrest them, then we "take action" (what action)?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#249

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

Are warrants necessary? I thought a warrant was a legal way to compel compliance. If the company who owns the data wants to sell it then that's that.

It either shouldn't be collected or if it is then the sale should be prohibited.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#250

Post by LogonType10 »

Ansil849 wrote: post #247
LogonType10 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash. People say they want privacy, but people say a lot of things they don't mean. Instead I look at their actions. No one's willing to inconvenience themselves even slightly for privacy.

> Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash. Where can you buy a SIM card with cash and not have to show any ID? And for bonus points: where you will also not be recorded on CCTV doing so.

Try it at your local store, and if they ask, tell them that you don't have an ID card because your wallet got stolen last week. Be a little adventurous.

>where you will also not be recorded on CCTV doing so

This begs the question on whether you are trying to avoid automated surveillance and correlation or whether you are trying to out-do Usama bin Laden at competitive hide and seek. The more important question is: how long is that CCTV data stored for?

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