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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

211–220 of 386 posts

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#211
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when Russian hackers shut down American hospitals and can't be extradited? Who's going to hack back and enforce the law? The FBI can't do it.

When foreign actors commit such an act from outside the country, and their government isn't cooperative about stopping/punishing them, that's exactly the kind of thing intelligence agencies should be involved with.

So you want intelligence agencies to enforce the US criminal code?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#212

Idea: get together some money, buy data of 100 of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. Publish everything found, see if the laws are then changed...

A good start, but their profiles are probably incredibly well scrubbed (or whatever is out there is already mitigated). Instead, collect it on every Congressperson and then see how fast things change. Most politicians don't have the means to scrub their backgrounds like multi-million dollar PR-vulnerable CEOs.

> A good start, but their profiles are probably incredibly well scrubbed (or whatever is out there is already mitigated).

I have serious doubts about this.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an arrest on your record is enough to bar your from job and housing, even if charges were dropped or you were found not guilty. That alone is enough of a chilling effect to affect behavior: for example, staying away from protests or not questioning a police officer. Again, we are already there.

A criminal background check is not connected to your credit score and a convicted criminal charge is not the same as political dissent. Stop moving goal posts. I was arrested once and I got the charge expunged with community service. Hasn't affected my job applications so far.

Is there any evidence that political dissent drops a social credit score?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#214
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

Pretty much everyone in the west gets a credit score the math of which is nebulous and proprietary. It is increased by acting in a desireable manner even if that manner is unhealthy or unproductive for the individual - and a lot of random BS can go into the math that we can't even see. In the west these things aren't public so it isn't the government grading you - but you still are very much being graded by private c…

A poor credit score does not limit your ability to board a plane, to be admitted to a university, or to found a political organization.

If you want a taste of low social credit score in the US life, consider the status of a convicted felon, or a status of a sex offender.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely think that the government should be able to purchase data in order to conduct investigations. Unlike private actors, governmental actors are publicly constrained in their actions and representatives of the will of our society.

My major concern with this is the accuracy of the information. I regularly put in dodgy data on registration forms where there is no financial contract. This puts me at risk of being held to that information. Because it's on the computer, it must be right.

Sounds like this is a reason why this is not a foolproof approach for the government, not a major concern for you.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't rely on SCOTUS to make this ruling for another 50+ years, so our best hope is to start with state legislators. The majority of law enforcement happens at a state level, and most state legislators aren't as hamstrung as the federal one is, so this is the easiest way to achieve the most impactful results. Also, POTUS is in charge of most federal law enforcement agencies. So it might be possible to handle this…

We just need members of Congress to have embarrassing info or evidence of criminality exposed by data broker collection. Then they'll seal everything up like with video rental records.

I'm not sure most members of Congress have the capability to be embarrassed anymore. The ones that do probably don't have much interesting to hide.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, that's not quite true. I can't get a phone provider that won't pen register my data off. It's not an option and it's entirely not practical to conduct life without a phone of some kind.

Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash. People say they want privacy, but people say a lot of things they don't mean. Instead I look at their actions. No one's willing to inconvenience themselves even slightly for privacy.

I just spent the last couple days on a business trip, trying to do dev work while mobile and even though I have all the latest, common tech it's still death by a thousand cuts. If I'd be doing this kind of thing with obscure distros and hardware I'd probably not have even slept last night. When in a pinch, it really does not seem realistic at all. I don't understand how you guys do it.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#218
It's interesting how companies, and governments, are quick to tell us how our data isn't worth anything so they don't have to pay us for it. It's not private, but they recognize the violation of privacy laws by purchasing through 3rd parties.

Our data is worth $,$$$,$$$,$$$'s and it's time we campaigned to get paid. It's time we change privacy laws worldwide to make violations of individual privacy worth 30% of a company's gross income for 5 years. If the penalty is large enough, they'll stop screwing us.

We can't send a company to prison, but we sure as hell can take that prison tax right off the top of their bottom line. Hell 30% gross profits for 5 years is probably not even enough, but it's a good damn start

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#219

Idea: get together some money, buy data of 100 of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. Publish everything found, see if the laws are then changed...

A good start, but their profiles are probably incredibly well scrubbed (or whatever is out there is already mitigated). Instead, collect it on every Congressperson and then see how fast things change. Most politicians don't have the means to scrub their backgrounds like multi-million dollar PR-vulnerable CEOs.

Congresspeople are also all multimillionaires who are PR vulnerable.

As of 2011, the average Senator had a net worth of $14 million and the average Representative had a net worth of $6.5 million.

Presumably it has only gone up in the decade since, given the long bull market in everything.

https://ballotpedia.org/Net_worth_of_United_States_Senators_...

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, that's not quite true. I can't get a phone provider that won't pen register my data off. It's not an option and it's entirely not practical to conduct life without a phone of some kind.

Mint mobile. Buy the SIM card with cash. People say they want privacy, but people say a lot of things they don't mean. Instead I look at their actions. No one's willing to inconvenience themselves even slightly for privacy.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to want greater privacy in off-the-shelf products they buy. People shouldn't have to resort to buying SIM cards with cash (???) to preserve their privacy.
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