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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#231

Post by quantified »

nybble41 wrote: post #210
quantified wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all committed privacy suicide when we bought smartphones. The data that we thought should be out of government hands, we put into the hands of many businesses. I agree it seems unsettling, but why can’t the government purchase information on the open market?

> … why can’t the government purchase information on the open market? The most obvious answer would be that they're spending our money in a way which is contrary to our interests. If it were their own funds, and they had no powers beyond those of any other private citizen or organization, that would be one thing. But they're supposed to be acting on our behalf, in our interests rather than their own, and to many peop…

That was the point I was inadequately trying to draw attention to also. Yes.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#232

Post by kiba »

ukd1 wrote: post #192
nostromo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: "Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

But, nothing is being searched or seized here; it seems like people gave up their personal data, ignored or didn't read a ToS, and companies are selling it - not being forced to give it up. I don't like it, but does it mean it's illegal?

Nobody reads ToS. Doesn't mean people should give up their personal data.

Maybe it should be illegal?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#233

Post by drusepth »

coralreef wrote: post #127
kelnos wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we need to understand the purpose of the data collection and what bad things might happen because of it. If Treasury is using this data to catch people who violate economic sanctions, ok. If the IRS is using this data to catch people who cheat on their taxes, ok. I don't love either of those things, but they are using the data only to do things that have been defined as their job to do for a long time now. Th…

The FBI needs file hashes of every photo on everyone's phone. It will help detect abusers of cp/illegal content. It is the mandate of the FBI and their job for a long time now to stop those things. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that these hashes would be used to penalize people in other ways, but if there was then sure, that's cause for worry. /parody

The comment says /parody, but I'd happily sacrifice such a small amount of privacy (hashes of the photos of my phone; not even the photos themselves?) to help law enforcement detect abusers of child pornography and related illegal content.

The hypothetical "what if" of how those hashes could be used to penalize people in other ways is FUD. We can think of millions of ways to abuse any system -- but that doesn't mean that people will.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#234

Post by more_corn »

ineedasername wrote: post #182

Unfortunately, this isn't really the Fed's buying their way around the 4th amendment as the article states: it's people selling away their 4th amendment rights by giving their personal data & right to resell it to companies that will sell to anyone with the cash to buy it.

I didn't give anyone shit. Don't accuse me (or anyone else) of that. This is advertising tracking data that normal people can't avoid generating. Ever had a product advertisement follow you around the web? That's the kind of data we're talking about here. I aggressively block, limit and quash everything like this (to the point of things often not working on my networks and devices) and I still generate massive amounts of data that I would prefer not be used to target me for anything. Blaming the user for this arguably illegal abuse of their data is irresponsible and borders on malicious blame shifting.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#235

Post by TeeMassive »

literallyaduck wrote: post #165

Don't like it? Organizations like the EFF have been working to stop overreach: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/01/eff-fincen-stop-pushin... You can help financially, and contact each of your representatives and senators and request they act to stop this end run around the constitution.

Upvote for the EFF.

They really are the heroes of digital time. And they stayed true to their mission amidst the woke wave other organizations have been swayed with.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#236

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

whimsicalism wrote: post #226
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arizona v. Gant

Paying someone for information != warrantless search. A search involves compulsion.

> A search involves compulsion.

Exclusively? That's a novel interpretation of 4A. Where did you get it?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#237

Post by downandout »

salawat wrote: post #223
downandout wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SCOTUS outlawed buying the data, they’d just find ways around that too. Maybe they’d just start creating apps and directly monitoring people. With an unlimited marketing and development budget, they could wind up on the majority of Americans’ phones pretty fast. Depending on the kinds of apps they created, they might get warrantless access to millions of bank accounts, text messages, emails, video conferences, ful…

You'd get industry screaming bloody murder faster than you can say 'Uncle Sam'. See why the NWS/NOAA are restricted in the weather products they can offer, and why a simplified tax filing option has been so long in coming.

Oh I don’t think anyone would know about the government being behind it. They could do it through front companies. The government already does all kinds of other activities through front companies.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#238

Post by throwaway0a5e »

ukd1 wrote: post #192
nostromo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: "Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

But, nothing is being searched or seized here; it seems like people gave up their personal data, ignored or didn't read a ToS, and companies are selling it - not being forced to give it up. I don't like it, but does it mean it's illegal?

Data held by 3rd parties falls under "papers and effects".

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#239

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

mmcdermott wrote: post #190
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a good chance the Constitution covers this now. What we need are uncompromised courts to hear and rule on 4A violations.

I'd agree that the 4th Amendment ought to cover it. It isn't unambiguous, though. It isn't hard to see how a lawyer could point out that "and to forever secure the people, their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against all unreasonable searches and seizures under the guise of law" says nothing about purchasing data from a 3rd party. This wasn't really something that would have come up in the 18th century. Extend…

Can a Gov agent legally avoid the warrant requirement by paying some rando to perform an invasive search?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#240

Post by Zak »

LogonType10 wrote: post #211
Zak wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When foreign actors commit such an act from outside the country, and their government isn't cooperative about stopping/punishing them, that's exactly the kind of thing intelligence agencies should be involved with.

So you want intelligence agencies to enforce the US criminal code?

Certainly not. I want US intelligence agencies to take action against foreign threat actors to reduce their capacity to cause harm to US citizens and infrastructure.
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