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USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

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Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#161

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

strix_varius wrote: post #107
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people can make middle class livings again without being shut out of a job for lack of a college degree. My previous job I worked at required a Bachelors in business of any kind. I got it because I worked at the company and basically beat out external candidates even though I didn't have a degree. Know what it paid? $15/hr. This is why people are duped into college degrees.

I don't have a degree, but I have an excellent job, and I used to consider myself lucky to be a tech-based outlier. But given how much I've paid this year for refinishing hardwood floors, installing gas lines, plumbing, and electrical work, I now wonder if tech is really that unique. The contractors I talk to are booked out for weeks, and I need their expertise much more than they need my business. I'm not convinced…

> Most people aren't willing to crawl underneath houses to hook up potentially-dangerous electric/gas lines. etc.

In a past life, I tried the general laborer gamit and it's impossible to get a job there too. Simply cause nobody hires you unless it's by word of mouth. So it's even worse than being shut out for not having a degree. So overall, it's no so much that people don't believe that they need a degree, it's the path of least resistance since you can at least get your foot in the door through a company once you pass the minimum qualifications. General labor stuff, good luck getting a job in a specialized field. I tried breaking into HVAC and I couldn't even get an unpaid apprenticeship cause people just won't do it.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#162

Post by morelandjs »

adamredwoods wrote: post #132
999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

I think the article is pointing towards USC-specific predatory behavior for social-worker degrees. >> In increasing enrollment in its social-work program, USC benefited from federal loan dollars: Graduates from 2015 through 2018 collectively borrowed more than half a billion dollars in federal student loans, more than those at any other graduate program in the country, the Journal found. USC had an endowment of $5.9…

Set the government student loan ceiling according to the university and degree program. One way to do this would be to peg it to the median earnings of recent grads (determined via tax reporting).

Want to pursue a pre-medical degree at USC? Great! The government will loan you up to some large amount. Want to pursue a humanitarian degree at XYZ tech online? Great! The government will loan you a small amount. Remove the externality on society.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#163

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

nsxwolf wrote: post #155
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people can make middle class livings again without being shut out of a job for lack of a college degree. My previous job I worked at required a Bachelors in business of any kind. I got it because I worked at the company and basically beat out external candidates even though I didn't have a degree. Know what it paid? $15/hr. This is why people are duped into college degrees.

You're making the case that you don't actually need the degree. You're far better off without it, if you're going to end up with a job that pays the same regardless. The problem seems to be no one is being properly warned before making the decision, or those warnings aren't being heeded.

It is exactly that. Schools just want people to churn and nothing more. They don't care even if you graduate. The worst part is that everybody thinks education is the lifeblood of happy people so you can't tell these schools to screw without some insane liberal screaming you're trying to disenfranchise the poor.

The thing is, most kids go to school not knowing what they want to do. If that is the case, going to college is the absolute worst possible decision you could ever make. On top of that, you might even be going into a field you despise but can't back out now.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#164

Post by robotresearcher »

echelon wrote: post #23
m0lecules wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, you have schools like (the actual) Georgia Tech offering an online MS in CS for an affordable price: https://omscs.gatech.edu/

This is the university that started it all. They've had the program for about a decade now, and they do a ridiculously good job. [1] It's a rigorous degree, they only admit a limited number of students (so your application has to be reasonable), and it's completely affordable. It's also indistinguishable from their on-campus MS in CS. It doesn't say you took it "online" after you graduate. Georgia Tech is a pretty ou…

> This is the university that started it all

The Open University (UK) has offered decently-regarded remote degree programs since 1969.

In the 1970s they used to show lectures on national broadcast TV in the otherwise-unused hours of the day. Was cool.

https://www.open.ac.uk

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#165

Post by literallyaduck »

jamestimmins wrote: post #146
literallyaduck wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should aggressively target universities who commit this type of fraud and seize their assets, buildings, real estate, donations and endowments to recoup the taxpayers money.

Where is the fraud? I acknowledge the unethical behavior, but that's distinct from fraud.

Underwriting loans which the borrower has no ability to repay is fraud.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#166

Post by aidenn0 »

colinmhayes wrote: post #57
aidenn0 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest difference in college since I went to school is that the gap between the cost of an elite school and a random state-school has narrowed significantly. I had a friend who paid his way through college with summer construction jobs and graduated with about $10k in debt. People who were willing to work part-time during the school year could graduate debt free. Tuition at an exclusive liberal arts scho…

UIUC instate total cost is 30k a year, including room/board. If you're working full time and living a poverty lifestyle you can graduate debt free easily enough, especially if you get prestigious internships.

I wouldn't wish having to work full-time while doing undergrad on anybody.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#167

Post by psyc »

zsmi wrote: post #147
WalterSear wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The career counselor at my expensive private school didn't know what an engineer does.

Wow. I thought everyone knew they drive trains.

And I thought everyone here knew they make React apps.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#168

Post by suresk »

Zircom wrote: post #154
hpoe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take a minute to plug WGU I got my undergrad and grad from there and it is fantastic. I would recommend it for anyone that is already working and needs a piece of paper. They work on a competency based model where you either take a test, or do a project/paper (or both) for the class to pass it. If it takes you 3 weeks to study and pass the test it takes 3 weeks, if it takes 2 days you can pass the class…

I just enrolled this past weekend actually, I got my associate's in CS a few years ago and am finally in a financial situation to finish up my the bachelor's. What exactly is the course content like? From previous online courses I've taken from Coursera/Pluralsight/other platforms video lectures seem to be the the norm which I actually really hate, I rarely attended lectures and instead would just read the material,…

The actual content is almost all reading, often with interactive exercises.

The way you pass a course is through an assessment at the end - either a proctored multiple-choice test or some sort of project you complete and have graded. A few courses have both. For the ones that have a test, there is a pre-test you can take at any time to see how ready you are for the test - for the most part they've been relatively close to the actual tests.

I haven't needed help from instructors very much, but when I have had questions they've been pretty responsive. They are also fairly responsive on the "chatter", which is a terrible, limited chat/forum-like thing for each course.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#169

Post by mdavis6890 »

It doesn't sound like the students have as big a problem as the LENDERS do! Why don't the students just not pay the bill and file bankruptcy? If the loans aren't government loans that aren't bankrupt-able, then I think we have identified the problem right there.

What we need to do is ensure that lenders bare the full cost of lending to people who likely will not be able to pay them back.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#170

Post by romwell »

999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

>The problem with Student Loan forgiveness is it would typically help the highest paid Americans. Most people with 100k plus in loans also make very good money.

Why would that be a problem?

First, your "typically" needs a citation. The average student loan is about $40K.

Second, it's not a problem to help struggling people if a percentage of people who are not struggling benefits too. Nothing is 100% efficient, and the inefficiency of not checking tax forms at a soup kitchen to make sure only the Actually Poor™ get the soup is made up tenfold by the outcome of nobody needing to be hungry.

>Adults have a right to make poor choices.

Yeah, unless it's buying alcohol, tobacco, or marijuana.

Somehow that doesn't apply to enlisting in armed forces or taking on a lifetime debt that, unlike anything else, won't be erased in a bankruptcy, and thus is nearly risk-free for the lender.

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