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USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

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Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#141

Post by smeyer »

908B64B197 wrote: post #105
vgeek wrote: post #5

Colleges have been quietly expanding the last 10-15 years with programs like these. They do it discreetly, sometimes with different campuses across town or simply online. From what I've seen, they may be an entirely separate school so as to not be reported on the same way (a 7% acceptance rate and high job placement rates at blue chip firms makes a difference when the major currency of universities is prestige), sinc…

> On LinkedIn I frequently see Harvard listed on profiles, but upon digging in, it is Harvard Extension School which mostly seems to offer certificates. This becomes awkward when interviewing if there's a real Harvard grad in the room. Invariably the first question they'll ask is which house the candidate was in.

>Invariably the first question they'll ask is which house the candidate was in

Are people actually asking this at the beginning of interviews? I'm a Harvard College grad, and that's a question I sometimes ask or am asked in social settings, but not in interview settings. When I've worked with interns or recent grads from the college it usually comes up eventually, but usually only after the internship/job has started and folks are starting to get each other.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#142

Post by jeffy90 »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #136
999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

> Adults have a right to make poor choices. Perhaps, but I do think we should defend the stupid from predators and predatory behaviors. > Why in God's name would you go 300k in debt to make 50k ? Takes money to make money. What's the break-even point? That 300k is a one time cost; that 50k is recurring yearly.

I guess the question should be why would you spend 300k at USC to make 50k, when you could spend 50k somewhere else to make the same 50k.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#143

Post by jamestimmins »

alex504 wrote: post #133
999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

The school spends 60% of its revenue selling itself as an elite education to people who don't qualify or need an elite education. They employ salesmen and incentivize them to be as aggressive as they legally can. They then deliver a subpar education, by every metric, compared to schools that cost half as much. This is a predatory scam that targets low-income individuals who want an education and a career and pretty m…

Where are you getting the 60% number? I have an extremely hard time believing this is anywhere close to accurate.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#144

Post by nvusuvu »

vasusen wrote: post #53
zeropoint46 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish they had something like this for undergrad.

University of London offers a Bachelor of Science (BSc) in Computer Science degree - https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelor-of-science-compute... . Full disclosure: I work at Coursera.

Do you know how much the tuition/fees cost for this?

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#145

Post by bmhin »

BizarroLand wrote: post #127
eindiran wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This creates an incentive structure that is exactly the opposite of what you want.

How so? Take a lower paying course that benefits society for little or no cost to you or a higher paying course that will push you into the upper middle or lower upper class that costs more. The only losers here would be the colleges that no longer get to charge the same $300k for every degree they stamp. Where is my logic wrong?

The loan burden is on many people who do not complete their degrees. If a college's options are: enroll people in very low margin degrees, with likely comparable costs, or enroll people in the high margin (& high earning) degrees but with a success rate of ~75% year over year, the school makes way more money but only a third come out with the value add degree. The incentive there is to push people into the alluring high risk high reward field cause they make revenue regardless. Let in more people, allow for bigger class sizes, offer more classes, etc.

The happy path might be the same or better, but the sad path gets grimmer. All that said, the completion rate fiasco is it's whole own can of worms.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#146

Post by jamestimmins »

literallyaduck wrote: post #77
bluedevil2k wrote: post #7

And almost all got loans backed by the US government that they won’t be able to repay and will fall on the US taxpayer to cover. Essentially USC bilked the US taxpayers out of millions, with these poor students serving as the unfortunate middlemen. Solution: make the universities have some skin the game - cover 20% of the principal on defaulted loans.

We should aggressively target universities who commit this type of fraud and seize their assets, buildings, real estate, donations and endowments to recoup the taxpayers money.

Where is the fraud? I acknowledge the unethical behavior, but that's distinct from fraud.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#147

Post by zsmi »

WalterSear wrote: post #134
aserdf wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Adults have a right to make poor choices. agree however the vast majority of high school kids are marketed to and forced to make decisions about college, while having little to no comprehension of the magnitude and permanence of their decision, when they are 17 years old (minors). graduate school of course being a different story.

The career counselor at my expensive private school didn't know what an engineer does.

Wow. I thought everyone knew they drive trains.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#148

Post by alex504 »

jamestimmins wrote: post #143
alex504 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The school spends 60% of its revenue selling itself as an elite education to people who don't qualify or need an elite education. They employ salesmen and incentivize them to be as aggressive as they legally can. They then deliver a subpar education, by every metric, compared to schools that cost half as much. This is a predatory scam that targets low-income individuals who want an education and a career and pretty m…

Where are you getting the 60% number? I have an extremely hard time believing this is anywhere close to accurate.

From the article:

>The social-work school was contractually required to share about 60% of revenue with 2U and ran into financial trouble.

My impression was that most of what 2u did was marketing, I might be wrong about that though. It seems like a combination of marketing and their online platform.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#149

Post by nprz »

TimPC wrote: post #118

Degrees are often used as proxies for an IQ test. To get into school X you must be at least Y smart. As long as we ban IQ tests for employment employers are going to keep using this as the best practical proxy. It’s going to have these kinds of bad effects where people need to get $115k degrees to get a $50k job since some people will do so despite the nonsensical ROI. We need to remove the law banning IQ tests in jo…

The world's most intelligent people can't figure out a way to make a 50k salary without spending 300k on education?

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#150

Post by jamestimmins »

aidenn0 wrote: post #43
jdavis703 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure there’s value in a masters social work degree, but not for anyone who wants to do hands-on work. If folks feel they want to do higher level work (i.e. addressing systemic issues that are behind the day-to-day issues social workers help with), then the degree could be useful.

Pretty sure that an MSW is required to be a social worker in my county; not sure if it's a statewide requirement in CA.

Licensed Clinical Social Workers in California have to get 3,200 hours of supervised work after graduation.

This isn't "social worker" in the loose sense of someone in the community. These are health professionals who receive extensive training in mental and emotional conditions.

Source: My wife is currently in school to be an LCSW, and her focus is treating adults with severe mental health issues.

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