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When is the revolution in architecture coming?

currentaffairs.org

191–200 of 211 posts

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#191
post #40
post #2

This misses a big point: highly skilled craftsmanship will never again be affordable on an architectural scale. So we'll have it again when it can all be done by machine. It costs human lives to build a Notre Dame, both in deaths and in total lifespan output, and as for Sagrada Familia it's still not complete. We now value human life and labor too much to be able to afford it. I personally can't wait to have detailed…

This is plain wrong. Hamburg’s philarmony cost 900 million euros to build. That’s an awful lot of money. Architects decide to spend on structure and texture instead of decor. And with today’s machines, we actually could make all these intricate details without human intervention.

This on its own isn't enough to refute OP, since it could very well be that the equivalent cost of one of these other historic buildings is even higher. (e.g. cost of skilled slave labor vs equivalent labor in modern markets, cost of materials, etc)

EDIT: Hmm, even the payer's power could be factored in. A king may be willing to spend 1/10th of his empire's wealth on an extravagant palace, but the same would likely not be approved in a democracy.

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Architect here. From my experience I would say completely the oposite, every intern is a Idris or at least a Haskell programmer. Architectural offices, soon or later, will make them Java programmers. COBOL programmers are the government authorities and the typical investor.

I kind of always wanted to be an architect, and my skillset largely seems inclined toward it; so much so that growing up, my dad was sure it was what I’d do. But EVERY exposure I had to young people in the industry, and even education to an extent (Saw a passionate friend quit the UMich program) belied the sentiment we’re bemoaning here. I wound up consigning my impulses to representational painting. Out of curiosity…

> Are there any foundational texts?

The treatise on Architecture from Vitruvius, a Roman architect. This is it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_architectura

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we get a government referendum on aesthetics?

Why would you need one? Do we need referendums in software for usability? No, we do not. We test with users and accommodate their needs and wants. That architects have strayed away from this is crazy.

So the theory is that the entire profession of architects is against constructing buildings people actually want? Or that times have changed and we lack the environment and infrastructure to achieve what we once could do.

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#194
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the slow march of the "business" mindset taking over all decision-making. Buildings are paid for by businessmen, businessmen want to be cheap and follow the crowd, and you end up with the same cheaply built building over and over.

Yet many 19th century warehouses had more ornamentation that today's Pritzker winners. At some point, there were businessmen backing beautiful buildings. I do think Apple's Ring campus is minimalist while also trying to be beautiful. But Ive and Jobs weren't architects by training.

That's partly because most of the majority that were ugly death traps have been torn down, but yes, there were once businessmen who backed beautiful buildings and didn't meddle too much with their idea of either beauty or good-for-business-ness.

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#195

I've seen enough revolution. I would be far more interested in an architectural counter-revolution, with the vendee marching on these modern monstrosities with pitch forks, torches and jackhammers.

Here's a skyline I think similarly-minded people might appreciate, this is Oxford which survived WW2 relatively unscathed and contains too many listed buildings for the post-war town planners to have bulldozed them all in favour of boxy concrete abominations against the sighted. https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/field/field_image_ma...

i was not prepared for these feels

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#196
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need one? Do we need referendums in software for usability? No, we do not. We test with users and accommodate their needs and wants. That architects have strayed away from this is crazy.

So the theory is that the entire profession of architects is against constructing buildings people actually want? Or that times have changed and we lack the environment and infrastructure to achieve what we once could do.

It's not a theory in EU at least. It's a fact.

You think it's some arcane knowledge to make buildings beautiful? It's not. They're still occasionally made this way like I said.

They just don't want to do it.

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#197
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This misses a big point: highly skilled craftsmanship will never again be affordable on an architectural scale. So we'll have it again when it can all be done by machine. That's not really the case. As with the internet and software, architecture was hijacked by building products corporations and tradespeople were duped into playing along, just like the employees of social media corporations one can see on this sit…

> there were lots of small machines built for the market of a small custom shop that might build things for local clientele. They have all been replaced by worse (in every respect) multi-function machines that only make boring things badly. It's funny how similar this sounds to the framework situation in software development.

I find the situation to be identical.

To set up a table saw (generic multi-function tool) to do what a tenoner does requires quite a bit of ingenuity. It's going to be a trip to the machine shop anyway because you'll need a shaper extension (or a standalone shaper / router table) to cut the coped ends of the muntins and rails. I spent as much on a router table extension for my table saw as I spent on the saw itself (the saw was a Powermatic model 66 from the 1970s, bought used).

Cutting the grooves (rabbets) where the glass in a wooden window or door rests is not only rather dangerous (you have to use a stacked up "dado" blade which is rather rough in terms of operation, and your fingers have to be close to it), but not trivial to set up for. You have to do the muntin ends with the boards standing on end, which requires a tenon jig for the table saw. These [1] videos [2] present a pretty good picture of how silly this all is for the muntins (the 'bars' in a window) and this one [3] is how you have to use a table saw to cut the glass recess in the rails / stiles.

In the case of the tenoning jig, if you search for one, you'll find a plethora of videos and guides from people claiming to have made one on their own out of scrap lumber, plywood, particle board, etc. They're really javascript frameworks manifest into mechanical devices when you watch them. There's no concern in any of these people's faces for the lack of rigidity, unstable nature of the materials they're using to build the thing, or infinitely small likelihood of longevity for the tool they've built. The only concern is making a blog post or youtube video that gets some clicks, just like youtube "coding channels," lol.

Making windows and doors that fit together properly, from experience, needs repeatable accuracy in your cutting machines of about 5 thousandths of an inch. How do people think they can do that with plastic / plywood / particle board jigs they home-built for multi-purpose machines? It's insanity, especially when a very simple purpose-built machine from the 1960s / 1970s can do what they're spending hours on in about 10 seconds, with perfectly repeatable precision.

Eventually all of this becomes a philosophical discussion, of course. My suggestion in the post above that people educate themselves about architecture and art to improve their own houses denotes doing that in their spare time. As in, not spending their spare time as a consultant or contract developer to make more money and just throw money at the problem and hope for a better outcome. Required in the undertaking is the acceptance that money will not buy everything they want. A dangerous consideration, indeed.

The whole world was built with a post-ww2 American economic model, in which factories get expensive purpose-built machines and hobbyists get poor multi-function machines that prevent them from competing with factories. Everyone can take whatever middle-man place they prefer if they make a living in this market, and prices can always go up because demand will always go up too, right? Except when (insert cog in the machine) doesn't, then it all breaks down and starts to consume itself for the last few quarters of bonuses, and the finale is the "Goldman Sachs special" when a finance firm loads a company like Powermatic with debt that they fully intend to default on: the mob-style bust-out.

1. https://youtu.be/jb-KpTfgwQo

2. https://youtu.be/xlg4pgiflTA

3. https://youtu.be/5iFAm1d-rhQ

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#198

I live in Amsterdam in the former social housing area where Anne Frank grew up. It was built in the 20s and is known as “the Amsterdam school” [1]. It is incredible: it is mostly lower than 5 floors (human scale), has a classic look and it provides just enough ornamentation for every building to be just slightly different from its neighbor. Inside the apartments, there are slight variations (eg, different stained gla…

I've always wondered why "open source architecture" never took off - i know every site has it's own challenges and each city it's own building codes but it seems like it would be pretty easy to make 50 types of buildings and essentially copy and paste them to make a nice city

They do it in suburbs. Not open source but developer recycling of blue prints.

I think the USSR had that with their Khrushchyovka and related ilk given to allies.

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have lots of evidence from paintings and photographs that it's not just survivorship bias, that things have gotten on average uglier. There's definitely a bias at play here, whatever name you give to it. Maybe a bias toward familiarity, where the longer something has been around, the more people decide they like it. I look forward to the day when I can build my perfect glass and stone paradise and finally escape t…

Where are you that's designed for people less than 5 feet tall? Generally it's the older buildings that tend to have higher ceilings - until very recently, most post-war buildings were built with 8-foot ceilings or even shorter.

Not just the ceiling height matters. Older buildings I've been in tend to have very narrow staircases and hallways (not enough room for elbows and shoulders), light fixtures mounted directly at or below my eye level, rooms in which it would be impossible to lie down with arms above head, and/or showers that barely reach chest height. And I am not particularly tall.

Re: When is the revolution in architecture coming?

#200

Oh yeah I can totally relate. If you want to dive deeper, follow Twitter accounts like @wrathofgnon or @createstreets. Just be prepared to leave the cozy liberal bubble of software… the scene is… more diverse. There seems to be a correlation between modernist architecture and liberalism, and vice versa, which to me is so baffling since it is the same people who advocate for modernist buildings who then enjoy their va…

It's worth reading the counterpoint - about reactionary "back to the past" architecture in the UK. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/05/the-royal-dystopia-of... I went to visit Poundbury a few years ago and my reaction was "Seriously?!" It's just as ugly and soulless as the output of the concrete box school. Even the name shows a hilarious absence of self-awareness. The fact that these supposed extremes somehow man…

Very worth reading indeed. Sigh. That makes me even more sad. I had high hopes of Poundbury, and reading that Krier, who has published smart ideas about urban planning, was apologetic towards a super nazi like Speer (and he was, as a new documentary recently reveals) is not forgivable. It seems we only have a choice between the imperialist and aristocrats or the staleness of steel/glass/concrete.

There must be a third way.

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