The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down • Hacker News Board

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#531

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #355

jodrellblank wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK it's illegal to bike on the pavement. [1] says " Rule 64. You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement. Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A sect 129 " (exception: combined bike lanes and pavement, if the cyclist stays in the bike section). Saying "the way things are is dangerous for me, so I'm going to break the law and be a danger to others instead because I'm what matters here" is not ok behaviour. If cycling is too dangero…

Insisting that people risk their lives because "the law says you have to put yourself in mortal danger, therefore you're morally obliged to comply" is blind obedience of the dumbest degree.

or the other option - walk on the pavement, with your bike.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by ThunderSizzle » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #504

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TN is a tax haven state. You're not going to get polished municipal services and infrastructure. Western New York has cheap housing and older, 150+ year old urbanization that doesn't suffer as much from 20th century shortsightedness.

How are sidewalks "polish"? In most of the world, they're the default thing - before a roadway suitable for cars, before piped water, before sewers, before electricity.

Because where you gonna walk to? Your gonna walk 5 miles to Target and back?

That'd why sidewalks is polish. Most sidewalks I see outside of tight downtowns are useless and barely used, and they aren't free to build and they don't generate anything if no one uses them...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by cranekam » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #478

cranekam wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding on the sidewalk is a terrible idea. The sidewalk is for pedestrians, not people weaving around on bikes. I'm massively pro-cycling, but bikes belong either in dedicated infrastructure or on the roads. Roads must not be monopolized by motor traffic — everyone pays for this infrastructure through taxation and it should serve everyone equally well.

I think a bike - pedestrian collision is less likely to kill somebody than a car - bike collision.

That may be so, but being killed isn't the only thing that pedestrians are concerned with. At best it's plain annoying to have a someone on a bike squeezing around pedestrians (remember that even a slow-moving bike is likely faster than people walking), and at worst there are collisions and bumps and forcing people off the path and whatever else.

Cycling on a sidewalk is also not a good experience for the cyclist, either. When crossing a perpendicular street it's quite a pain to look behind to see if someone is about to turn into you as you cross the road. This is no problem for pedestrians because they move slowly and can usually look back without wavering too much. It's not a concern for cyclists on the road because they have the right of way. Then there are reversing cars, stuff in the way (bins, lamp posts, whatever) and myriad other reasons why cycling on a sidewalk is impractical.

I love cycling and bikes and firmly believe cycling has an important role in getting people around. But it shouldn't be at the expense of people who're walking. Bikes belong on dedicated infrastructure or on the road. If the road is deemed "not suitable" somehow this needs to be addressed by building better roads.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by elzbardico » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 1:20 PM UTC

erect_hacker wrote: post #393

elzbardico wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car-oriented infra structure was responsible for a sizable portion of the economical development for quite a while.

Because we made it that way, cars had nothing to do with it. Hong Kong is not car oriented and it develop just fine…

Hong Kong is inserted on the global economy last time I've checked.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by osigurdson » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #427

osigurdson wrote: post #402

I am amazed by what they have been able to do with e-mountain bikes. The battery and motor are barely discernible anymore. Not for me as I prefer to pedal but impressive nonetheless. https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/s-works-turbo-kenevo-sl/p/...

Meanwhile forest rangers and other land owners are extremely angry because now even more people carve lines into delicate forest grounds. Even in places the mountain bikers couldn't have reached before.

These are not 50HP/35KW motocross bikes. They instead turn a weak rider into a very strong one (~600W) while still providing a good workout. In my experience they are most often used by older people who otherwise would not be getting out at all.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by analog31 » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

deanclatworthy wrote: post #381

analog31 wrote: post #148

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Most of my friends with e-bikes are already on their second e-bike. One issue is obsolescence. The newer bikes have bigger tires, better frame designs to accommodate the motor, better controls, more battery capacity, and so forth. They are purpose built as e-bikes, rather than conventional bikes with a motor and battery strapped on. Another is repair. Finding spare parts for the electronics is a headache. The hall se…

This isn’t such a problem with high end brands. I have a specialized ebike and am fairly sure I’ll get 5-10 years out of it. Only concern is the motor.

That should be do-able. And of course it's hard to say how long a bike "should" last. It's not unrealistic to get 40 years out of a conventional bike, though some parts are consumable. Since my bikes are thrown together from parts, there's a bit of survivor bias going on when I say that they're 30 to 40 years old, and there are some older technologies not worth saving such as steel rims.

What I do hope is that otherwise good bikes and their parts don't become un-salvagable because someone can't find a wiring diagram or something like that. I hope that like with conventional bikes, a cottage industry arises that shares information and recycles out-of-fashion bikes into usable vehicles for the rest of us. What do they do with old bikes in India or Africa? That's what I want to see. I don't feel bad if that 5-10 years is followed by a decent life in someone else's hands.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by kibwen » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 1:26 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #494

kibwen wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People appear to be mixing units here, I believe the parent commenter was using kph, not mph.

55mph on an ebike would be insane :) even 55kph is really really fast if you're not on perfect asphalt - the slightest pebble hitting the front wheel and it's goodbye

To clarify, it's insane from a practical standpoint to allow e-bikes to go that fast, but from a technological standpoint many e-bikes are more than capable of going that fast, and much faster. I have seen e-bikes that advertise their top speed as 80 mph.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by Retric » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

Mengkudulangsat wrote: post #523

Retric wrote: post #189

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E-bikes allow a wider range of people to exercise and travel quickly. That’s their advantage over both electric scooters and traditional bicycles. As such they are really worth incorporating into the urban landscape. Also, it’s not obvious but the highest throughput per unit area at street level is sidewalks, bike lanes, and then the least efficient traffic lanes. Sidewalks need skyscrapers and a massive subway syste…

Electric scooters come with some amazing safety innovations, namely turn signals and rear-view mirrors. I honestly don't understand why people need to exercise on their commute, just go to the gym!

Going to the gym takes time. Even if you’re just walking for 20 minutes each way that’s still 40 minutes of light exercise 5 days a week for 40 years. Which from a public health standpoint is quite significant as few people go to the gym every week for their entire working life.

E-bikes combine that basic level of exercise with being able to travel significant distances or across steep hills. Driving is faster but takes longer to park and doesn’t scale nearly as well in terms of infrastructure so it’s not a major time saver compared to short bike commutes. Granted, bike infrastructure is often unused in the US but it’s often a question of critical mass. There needs to be enough in place to get to everything safely and it needs to be around long enough for people to start using it.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

sdenton4 wrote: post #276

mjmahone17 wrote: post #231

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Housing within bicycle commuting distance (under 5 miles) in many cities is abundant, if you’re willing to forgo a car. Especially if you convert the car savings to rent or mortgage payments. Basically, if you can be all-in on not driving, you save a lot. But once you even want to drive a little bit, the savings to driving only sometimes instead of all the time is not very large (and can in fact be negative, as you p…

The right way to drive a little bit is car share programs, or just eating a car rental fee occasionally. Mean cost of car ownership in the US is over $9000; you can buy a damn fancy e-bike and rent a car a few times in a year and still come out quite far ahead. (and you only need to buy the e-bike approximately once.) https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/average-annual-cost-...

I had a friend who used to rent a limo for first and special dates. Even that was cheaper than owning a car.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

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Post by gerbilly » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

Every time I see a cycling story, I like to do a Cmd-F for the word 'rules' to see how many rules pedants there are in the thread complaining about how cyclists don't follow the rules of the road.¹

1. Apparently, cyclists have to follow each and every rule of the road—rules which were designed with cars in mind—in order to be allowed to be on the road, or I should say even to be allowed to _live._