The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down • Hacker News Board

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#491

Post by greggman3 » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 9:55 AM UTC

ryan_lane wrote: post #321

ceras wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides Europe, I remember seeing several sidewalks in Japan that allowed it. And many (most?) streets in Japan are fully mixed across modes, and have no sidewalk, so you'll see bikers+pedestrians(+cars) combined there too. There's something very nice about these types of mixed streets, but they're pretty much unheard in the US. They work very well on small residential streets, where cars would otherwise get 80% of t…

It's technically illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk in at least Tokyo. The lack of protected bike lanes, however, means that very few people obey that law. There's a lot of mixed-use streets here without sidewalks, and if cars weren't allowed on them, they'd be great. I'm always worried about being hit by a car on them.

Tons of sidewalks in Tokyo are marked for mixed use. You'll see these round blue signs showing both a bicycle and pedestrian

https://i.imgur.com/OzShuC8.jpg

I wouldn't generally call Tokyo a bike friendly city but they do have bike parking lots and more and more bike lanes are being added.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#492

Post by namdnay » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 9:56 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #19

paiute wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love mine, I think it opens up some opportunities to work on relations with cars and pedestrians. I feel less in the way when I can maintain a better speed up hill. and on trails it's not a burden to slow down when passing pedestrians on foot. Nothing is worse than a bike whizzing by when you don't expect it. I just wish they'd remove those stupid speed limiters.

Those speed limiters are indeed stupid, especially because on a 'regular' bike you can fairly easily outrun a normal e-bike (though probably not for as long unless you are in very good shape). Normal ones should be limited at 35 or so and speed-pedelecs at 50 Kph so you don't end up holding up other traffic. Where I live a speed-pedelec has to be in traffic but it isn't allowed to go as fast as that traffic, which cr…

What are the rules where you live? In France it's either a bike if the assist is limited to 25kmh (you could go above that on a nice flat road, but the gearing usually isn't designed for it) , or a "<50cc motorcycle" in which case it can go up to 50kmh (like all other <50cc vehicles). In the latter case, no bike lanes, you need a rear-view mirror and helmet, and for some bureaucratic reason the brakes have to be inversed

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#493

Post by aqme28 » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #296

sbierwagen wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies This has never been true, of course. As you would expect for something that costs a hundredth as much as a car, bicycling to work has always been more common among the poor: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/05/08/low-income-americans-...

That has not been my observation, except for kids and people delivering food. Consider there may be a dignity issue: If you are a lycra-clad yuppy, you're cycling because you want to. If you're poor, it looks like you can't afford a car.

It's not helpful to respond to data with an anecdote.

Here's another study showing the same https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Relationship-between-inc...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#494

Post by namdnay » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #196

TrevorJ wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the mind that it's up to every individual to decide how much risk they want to take, but I think an e-bike that can do 55 mph is significantly more dangerous than a motorcycle. Tiny amount of traction, no ability to maneuver or speed up further to get yourself out of a dangerous position. Crude/no suspension. No traction control, no turn signals, silent. Cars on the road see a pedal bike and expect you to beha…

People appear to be mixing units here, I believe the parent commenter was using kph, not mph.

55mph on an ebike would be insane :) even 55kph is really really fast if you're not on perfect asphalt - the slightest pebble hitting the front wheel and it's goodbye

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#495

Post by namdnay » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:00 AM UTC

parineum wrote: post #27

paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

I support the efforts to make cities more friendly to cyclist traffic but the increased popularity of both ebikes and electric scooters in downtown areas has made life as a pedestrian and a motorist stressful, especially around closing time. All the things that annoy me about cyclists (running stop signs when driving in the street and driving on the sidewalk are my two biggest annoyances) have gotten worse. Cycling a…

Maybe because it's because within the three groups (cyclists, drivers, pedestrians), cyclists are the only ones who haven't got their own infrastructure.

If cyclists had 90% of the road, and cars were forced to share the remaining 10% with pedestrians, everyone would be complaining (with reason) that's it's incredibly dangerous

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#496

Post by baash05 » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:18 AM UTC

tomcooks wrote: post #414

notlion wrote: post #327

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30mph is often needed to keep up with cars in areas where the bike infrastructure is poor or nonexistent. If you can't maintain the speed of traffic, cars will try to pass creating a more dangerous situation for the ebike rider.

I fail to find the connection between speed and safety, especially from a completely unshielded pilot point of view. It's not a bike's job to maintain safety and traffic speed, but the opposite.

When you're hit by a car, or passed by a bus, you realise quickly that it's your job. Because someone has to do the job, or you die.

They should, but OMG cars don't

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#497

Post by bambax » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #30

kccqzy wrote: post #3

I really enjoyed my e-bike when I bought it in 2018 or so. The pedal assist really felt seamless: you can get to the top speed of 20mph by pedaling with as much effort as it took to get to maybe 12mph on a regular bike. Unfortunately, the bike being worth thousands of dollars, it was a prime target for theft. My bike was stolen in San Jose and I decided to replace it with a sub-$1000 regular bike.

>sub-$1000 regular bike. Sounds expensive to me. I ride a Decathlon Triban 100 FB that cost me 150€ (new). Better than most 1K+ gravel bikes and not a target for thieves in Paris bc it's too common.

Decathon Triban 100 new is €300, not 150. Still an excellent choice though.

https://www.decathlon.fr/p/velo-route-homme-cyclotourisme-rc...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#498

Post by stavros » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #481

jmcphers wrote: post #208

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> It’s super unfortunate that it still gets the stereotype as a “rich white people” activity when it’s really so much more financially accessible than a car. It's true that a bicycle is itself cheaper than a car, but housing within biking distance to job centers sure isn't. In my view this is the primary reason bicycle commuters are stereotypically rich folks. The bicycle itself isn't the expensive part; you need pro…

> but housing within biking distance to job centers sure isn't. In my view this is the primary reason bicycle commuters are stereotypically rich folks. Perhaps in some places (where the major newspapers are?), but there area I grew up in has residential, industrial, and commercial all mixed up in a way that solves that issue: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/50.8285/-1.0276 (Likewise Berlin, though Berlin also h…

I think the zoning thing is more of a "US vs other places" issue.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#499

Post by Scroedingershat » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

dTal wrote: post #483

Scroedingershat wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're horrifically expensive, but something like an electric brompton as most of those same advantages. You can also usually take them on a bus or train. I'd disagree on the looking suave bit, it might just be because so many riders are clueless (and this perception being reenforced by selection bias), but someone on an escooter always looks far sillier to me than someone on a dutch style or folding bike, or even s…

It's a little rich to criticise on grounds of cost and then suggest an electric brompton in the same breath - they're nearly 10 times as expensive as the cheapest bikes/e-scooters. You can spend that much on an e-scooter, but you don't need to. E-scooters are about as affordable as bicycles. Regarding lycra - we can disagree on whether you look suave while riding, but a huge advantage of the e-scooter is that you don…

> It's a little rich to criticise on grounds of cost and then suggest an electric brompton in the same breath.

Apologies, I was trying to say that the brompton was the horrifically expensive option.

Upsides is they are a bit better for carrying cargo, can handle slightly rougher terrain, are a little more comfortable at long range and are a little more compact than the more capable escooters.

Both have their place, I was just trying to mention another option that hadn't been included.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#500

Post by BoxOfRain » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

fnord77 wrote: post #331

jkdufair wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 5 mile commute on an eBike is trivial.

I have a class 3 ebike (28 mph). I found the 5 mile commute exhausting even though I wasn't exerting myself much. Mentally exhausting, I guess. It's trivial once - it's a grind doing it 2x every day. This is in San Francisco. I'm in good shape, I run 4-5 miles a couple times a week. I think the worst part is a stop sign every block.

> Mentally exhausting, I guess.

I used to commute by (ordinary) cycling and this is a huge part of it. It's stressful navigating on urban roads through taxis and vans who seem to see you as the equivalent of a preachy vegan on wheels and drive like complete arses as a result. I've been literally run off the road by people who either can't be bothered to check their mirrors or have some creepy notion that cyclists "deserve" to be scared off the road by their aggressive driving. The only deterrent seems to be wearing a camera because they know it's the only way they'll ever have a chance of facing prosecution for it.

I'd never dream of telling someone else how to live their lives, I'm not one of those moral crusaders who endlessly harrass people about giving up their cars in favour of bikes. I just don't want to get mowed down by Billy Big Bollocks because he's too important to wait ten seconds to overtake safely.