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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

nytimes.com

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Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#91

Post by bink »

TrevorJ wrote: post #86
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

It cuts both ways. I am lucky enough to live in an area with an EXTENSIVE system of mixed-use trails for bikes and pedestrians. I worry that e-bikes, which are potentially much less pedestrian-friendly, will lead to a pushback against bikes being used on these trials at all.

We're in a weird situation now where I think most people riding e-bikes are doing so illegally on trails and paths. It's not being enforced yet where I live and I fear the push-back when someone inevitably gets hurt.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#92

Post by bink »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #22
multjoy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove the speed limiter you are riding an electric motorcycle, which needs to be somewhere other than with pedestrians and cyclists.

>with pedestrians Do some cities actually let cyclists bike on sidewalks? I bike 24/7 but this seems crazy. Bicycles needs their own, separate, protected paths, at the road level. Period.

In DC it's specifically allowed except for a prohibited section near the Mall downtown. And in that section the law is widely ignored by both cyclists and police either way.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#93

Post by TrevorJ »

jacquesm wrote: post #19
paiute wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love mine, I think it opens up some opportunities to work on relations with cars and pedestrians. I feel less in the way when I can maintain a better speed up hill. and on trails it's not a burden to slow down when passing pedestrians on foot. Nothing is worse than a bike whizzing by when you don't expect it. I just wish they'd remove those stupid speed limiters.

Those speed limiters are indeed stupid, especially because on a 'regular' bike you can fairly easily outrun a normal e-bike (though probably not for as long unless you are in very good shape). Normal ones should be limited at 35 or so and speed-pedelecs at 50 Kph so you don't end up holding up other traffic. Where I live a speed-pedelec has to be in traffic but it isn't allowed to go as fast as that traffic, which cr…

I'm of the mind that it's up to every individual to decide how much risk they want to take, but I think an e-bike that can do 55 mph is significantly more dangerous than a motorcycle. Tiny amount of traction, no ability to maneuver or speed up further to get yourself out of a dangerous position. Crude/no suspension. No traction control, no turn signals, silent. Cars on the road see a pedal bike and expect you to behave like one. Rider unlikely to be wearing the correct safety gear. If you lay down a bike at 55 and you aren't wearing leathers you can literally bleed out right there on the pavement. The list goes on and on.

Again, not saying it should not be allowed, but man, at that point please just take care of yourself and get a little honda motorbike and a full face helmet/leathers.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#94

Post by enriquto »

TrevorJ wrote: post #86
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

It cuts both ways. I am lucky enough to live in an area with an EXTENSIVE system of mixed-use trails for bikes and pedestrians. I worry that e-bikes, which are potentially much less pedestrian-friendly, will lead to a pushback against bikes being used on these trials at all.

Mixed-use paths are an extremely bad idea and dangerous for everybody. I actively avoid them as a pedestrian and as a cyclist. They should all disappear. If ebikes help to accelerate the inevitable dismissal of these stupid mixed-use lanes, so good!

A bike-friendly infrastructure is based on three separate networks, for pedestrians, cycles and cars. Each of the three networks must be continuous, reasonably complete and able to stand on its own.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#95

Post by TulliusCicero »

notacoward wrote: post #85
TulliusCicero wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does reduce the total danger. Cyclists are killed by cars all the time, whereas pedestrians dying to bikes is extraordinarily rare. In Germany, protected bike lanes are mostly extensions of the sidewalk, and while it's not ideal, it still works pretty well.

> It does reduce the total danger. I think that's kind of missing the GP's point. AIUI they weren't saying cyclists shouldn't move to the sidewalk when necessary. They were saying cyclists should do so with respect for the sidewalk's primary users especially with regard to safety. A sidewalk is a kind of commons, to be shared. "I need this now so you all get out of my way" isn't good sharing, and in many places (wher…

Oh, absolutely. I try to be respectful when I ride on the sidewalk.

But realistically, "cyclists should be nicer" isn't a policy prescription. We're just shouting into the void here, you can't actually accomplish anything significant with, I dunno, billboards shaming dickhead cyclists. Whereas zoning or road design changes could result in actual, meaningful change. And that would also result in cyclists being a lot nicer.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#96

Post by pjmlp »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #22
multjoy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove the speed limiter you are riding an electric motorcycle, which needs to be somewhere other than with pedestrians and cyclists.

>with pedestrians Do some cities actually let cyclists bike on sidewalks? I bike 24/7 but this seems crazy. Bicycles needs their own, separate, protected paths, at the road level. Period.

Definitely, quite common on European cities.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#97

Post by lappet »

zwieback wrote: post #26

I'm a year-round non-e-bike commuter in Oregon. I love e-bikes but until you can ride without getting soaked it'll be successful only part of the year in most of the US. We need something between the e-bike and golf-cart style EVs to fill the gap, some kind of sophisticated fairing or a 3 wheel format that isn't super dorky.

an electric auto rickshaw (tuk tuk) maybe?

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#98

Post by pjmlp »

bch wrote: post #68
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

> people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies I don’t know who “those people” are, or what regional politics are at play, but that doesn’t pass my “smell test”. How about deploying “think about the children” here for something that increases exercise and happiness, mobility, fosters growth… it’s not even contentious with respect to (e.g.) civil liberties. I suspect the answer is people j…

And free baths on rainy days.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#99

Post by sgarman »

paiute wrote: post #63
multjoy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove the limiter and pedal assist requirement, you have an electric motorcycle. If you want one of those, then you'll need to be licensed to ride one. Do you want an e-bike you can ride like a bicycle, or do you want an e-bike you can ride like a motorcycle?

only because we have brain dead laws on e bikes. why not 24.5 mph? I see actual electric motorcycles on our bike paths all the time, I have never seen them cause a real problem. People on normal bikes cause all the problems because they have so much invested in their current speed.

I don't think this is a fair take. People on normal bikes do cause problems because of the reason you listed but it's surely not ALL of the problems.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#100

Post by notacoward »

notatoad wrote: post #87
notacoward wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the short-term hell is simply more people experiencing what most cyclists are already used to. Did you miss the part where the cyclists are the ones inflicting that hell on others sometimes? Cyclists haven't been the only ones demanding better non-automotive infrastructure. I've supported the local path with both my dollars and the sweat of my brow, only to have freeloading cyclists tell me that they have priority…

again, this is exactly the sort of politics that hopefully will change as more people ride bikes. yes, there's some bad cyclists. but because there's few enough cyclists, people who aren't cyclists like to group us all together. when a driver or pedestrian is an asshole, you say the person was an asshole, because you understand that they don't represent all drivers or all pedestrians any more than you do. but when a…

> when a cyclist is an asshole, you jump to treating that as the behaviour of all cyclists

No, I don't, and even if that was meant as a generic "you" it seems a bit like attempted mind-reading. How about not doing that? FWIW, the people I've worked with on maintaining my local path are mostly cyclists. No friction there. When people call out "on your left" (interestingly that's most of the women and damn few of the men) I always say "thank you" in return. I'm well aware that most cyclists are good people and I treat them as such, but there are enough - and an even higher percentage among cycling activists - that it's a problem.

I guess I should have been more explicit about referring to that subset earlier, but other cyclists should be aware that those are the ones people remember (it's basic math + psychology) and exert peer pressure accordingly instead of getting aggressive themselves every time the issue comes up.

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