Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

eurasianet.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 361 posts

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#351

Post by sudosysgen »

philipkglass wrote: post #297
sudosysgen wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyper pure quartz for photovoltaic solar is limited.

Are you thinking of purified silicon? Silicon is made starting with quartz, quartzite, or similar minerals rich in silicon dioxide. Crude silicon always requires additional purification for solar uses after it's initially created, so the purity of quartz going into the electric furnace isn't critical. You can see the process flow from raw materials to completed PV modules here: http://oasis.mechse.illinois.edu/me432/…

No, I'm talking of high purity silicon necessary for the crucibles used to manufacture polysilicon wafers suitable for PV solar panels.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#352

Post by njarboe »

malermeister wrote: post #298
njarboe wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If big crypto-mining syndacates start using small scale nuclear (as some have shown interest in doing) to be carbon neutral, they could be on the vangaurd of proving out the technology and be a net positive in the medium to long term. They really want low, consistent prices for electricity. Hydro gives them that but nuclear could also. Solar and wind do not.

I keep reading that this or the other crypto thing had a design flaw that caused people to lose millions. I really don't want those same kinds of people running nuclear reactors so I can read about how crypto scheme X literally blew up.

They won't be running them, of course, just have long term contracts with the companies that make them. Check out NuScale Power[1]. They recently had their small reactor approved in the US (approval paperwork cost $500 million dollars) and they should have some of them running soon. The reactor can be built in a factory and is small enough to be delivered in one piece via truck. This will dramatically reduce construction costs, if they can get enough orders. Why buying and deploying 1000 of these is not in the climate bill is just crazy if climate change is the huge threat people claim it to be. I think global warming is going to be a big problem; bring on the nukes.

[1]https://www.nuscalepower.com/

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#353

Post by malermeister »

njarboe wrote: post #352
malermeister wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading that this or the other crypto thing had a design flaw that caused people to lose millions. I really don't want those same kinds of people running nuclear reactors so I can read about how crypto scheme X literally blew up.

They won't be running them, of course, just have long term contracts with the companies that make them. Check out NuScale Power[1]. They recently had their small reactor approved in the US (approval paperwork cost $500 million dollars) and they should have some of them running soon. The reactor can be built in a factory and is small enough to be delivered in one piece via truck. This will dramatically reduce construc…

I agree with you that all sorts of nuclear power is going to be important in dealing with climate change.

I still disagree with the types of people that run crypto and are ideologically opposed to any kind of common sense regulation being let anywhere near nuclear power.

Here's [1] what happened when those people got something comparatively harmless like a cruise ship. I really don't think it sets a good precedent.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/sep/07/disastrous-voya...

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#354

Post by DonHopkins »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #343
AlexandrB wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cliche at this point, but: https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ I'm guessing since there are no hypocrites in crypto you are all using non-fiat "coins" to pay your bills and buy groceries, right?

[flagged]

>Even more of a cliché than these tiresome climate change debates.

Since you find climate change debates so tiresome instead of essential for humanity, will you please honestly tell us if you personally believe in climate change, or give a flying fuck about it?

How do you reconcile that with your cheerleading and shilling for cryptocurrency?

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#355

Post by fastball »

AlexandrB wrote: post #303
fastball wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If mining is profitable that means electricity is costing less than the proceeds of mining. If these miners are Kazakhstani, presumably they are spending the majority of these gains in-country, or are paying taxes on the proceeds. As such this should be a net gain for Kazakhstan, since I assume the majority of people buying the crypto the miners are generating are not in fact Kazakhstani. This doesn't seem complicate…

This is my sarcastic answer of "trickle-down economics" just with more hand-wavy elaboration on how that might work. Amazing!

Trickle-down economics is different.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#356

Post by matheusmoreira »

DonHopkins wrote: post #354
matheusmoreira wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Even more of a cliché than these tiresome climate change debates. Since you find climate change debates so tiresome instead of essential for humanity, will you please honestly tell us if you personally believe in climate change, or give a flying fuck about it? How do you reconcile that with your cheerleading and shilling for cryptocurrency?

I do care a lot about climate change. That's why I thought it was important to remind everyone who the real troublemakers are. If you actually want to cause a significant positive impact on this world, you should redirect your efforts there. Cryptocurrencies are nothing but a distraction.

Also, "cheerleading and shilling"? Do you see me calling people nocoiners?

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#357

Post by matheusmoreira »

thinkcontext wrote: post #251
matheusmoreira wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see. Heat pumps must move existing heat from somewhere though. Won't those come from burning fuels? I have a lot of solar panels in my home. I'm generating more energy than I'm using. I don't consider efficiency to be a significant concern at the moment.

> I'm generating more energy than I'm using. I don't consider efficiency to be a significant concern at the moment. I also produce a surplus and I sell it (for more than the local utility charges to boot). More efficiency is more money in my pocket, is it not for you?

> I also produce a surplus and I sell it

> More efficiency is more money in my pocket, is it not for you?

Unfortunately, it isn't. I also inject surplus energy into the local power distribution network. In my country, I don't actually get paid for that. They give me "kWh credits" that I'm supposed to spend whenever I generare less energy than I consume. These credits will expire if unused, I can't accumulate them.

So it is simply not viable for any home or business to generate more power than they consume. I have space for more solar panels but I'd be giving the power companies free energy if I installed them.

Cryprocurrency is the perfect solution for my problem. Instead of giving them my energy surplus, I sink it into my computers instead so they can mine cryptocurrency. If the waste heat could be reused somehow, it would be even better...

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#358

Post by BoiledCabbage »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #269
sudosysgen wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% energy usage is far from a drop in the ocean. It's huge!

In absolute terms, sure. In relative terms, it's nothing. Removing BTC energy consumption from the equation barely affects the result. In order to actually do something about climate change, humanity needs to tackle that big 80-90% chunk of energy consumption coming from much more problematic industries. Cryptocurrency is a nuisance by comparison, a minor problem.

I think if you're going to promote this view, you really need to look into the energy growth rate of Bitcoin.

It has doubled in the past 6 months. And gone up 10x over the past 4 years. How many more times can it go up 10x before you would consider it no longer nothing, and now a concern for the world?

The first rule of holes is "stop digging". We are in a hole with energy consumption. And we've set off an automated digger to sit next to us. People are shouting, if we want to get out of this hole, yes we need to fill it, but first need to do something immediately about this automated digging machine.

In my option (and I'm not singling you out as many in crypto feel this way), it is incredibly backwards for anyone to both say stopping climate change and energy consumption is a priority - and that promoting a growing energy beast isn't a huge concern to be addressed.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#359

Post by matheusmoreira »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #358
matheusmoreira wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In absolute terms, sure. In relative terms, it's nothing. Removing BTC energy consumption from the equation barely affects the result. In order to actually do something about climate change, humanity needs to tackle that big 80-90% chunk of energy consumption coming from much more problematic industries. Cryptocurrency is a nuisance by comparison, a minor problem.

I think if you're going to promote this view, you really need to look into the energy growth rate of Bitcoin. It has doubled in the past 6 months. And gone up 10x over the past 4 years. How many more times can it go up 10x before you would consider it no longer nothing, and now a concern for the world? The first rule of holes is "stop digging". We are in a hole with energy consumption. And we've set off an automated…

I'm not ignoring or dismissing the problem. I just think it's not a priority right now. I also completely support ideas that make cryptocurrency mining more sustainable. In this thread I had an amazing discussion about using the waste heat generated by miners for useful purposes. We definitely need more of that.

I don't like these posts claiming cryptocurrency is literally destroying the world and must be banned or regulated out of existence. Those need a reality check, and the reality is cryptocurrency is not even 1% of world energy consumption.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#360

Post by BelenusMordred »

kube-system wrote: post #11
BelenusMordred wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a bizarre comment given the history of price controls and their horrendous outcomes.

Price controls on utilities in the US are extremely common and successful. There are good ways to implement price controls and there are bad ways. Also, there are just as many examples of bad outcomes when you treat markets which are inherently unfree (i.e utilites, where infrastructure is typically monopolized) as free markets.

Price controls are successful until they aren't. The US can subsidise an egregious amount of bad policies for a very long time I suspect, from agriculture to health, it's not really going to hurt as there are other parts of the diverse economy that can pay.

An better example would be Venezuela, with the largest oil reserves on Earth, they subsidised energy costs to an extreme extent and it was one of the things that drove them into the ground.

People seem to dislike my comment above, yet no one seems to be arguing for petrol to cost ten cents a litre. Why not subsidise fuel if doing such things has such a successful history in the United States?

Post reply on HN