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Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

eurasianet.org

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Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#221

Post by cinntaile »

notahacker wrote: post #203
cinntaile wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by outcompeting? I don't know the answer of course otherwise I wouldn't have posed the question but I guess asking questions qualifies for getting downvoted to -3. Some of you are clearly sitting on all the answers but you're not sharing them with the rest of us. We see the short term results, my question was directed at the long term. I don't think it really matters if it's crypto mining or aluminum…

What I mean by outcompeting is that if rich cryptominers are pricing poor Kazakhs out of an electricity supply which was perfectly fine before, I don't see how that counts as a win for their robustness and stability of power supply. And PoW crypto isn't like aluminium smelting. The value of aluminium smelting isn't in winning an arms race with other aluminium smelters based on how much power they consume, so if you b…

> What I mean by outcompeting is that if rich cryptominers are pricing poor Kazakhs out of an electricity supply which was perfectly fine before, I don't see how that counts as a win for their robustness and stability of power supply.

The article doesn't mention any of that though. It says that the miners got cut off (rationed) because 3 coal plants were offline. The regulator is stepping in to make sure regular people and industries are prioritized.

> The whole "crypto creates demand for innovation in power supply" only makes sense if you believe people haven't been investing in innovation in power supply because there's been barely anybody that wants cheap electricity for the past century or so! That might be the case for [formerly] tiny niches affected by new use cases, like say, lithium batteries suitable for powering vehicles. It isn't the case for Kazakh ability to keep the lights on

Investments and innovation follow demand so now that demand has risen and assuming demand stays high, what should we expect will happen? This is not unique to crypto, it just happens to be the driving force here. Of course other industries can lead to similar outcomes. If you think this will not lead to innovation and investments, you are basically saying that cryptomining deviates from the norm and you would need to justify this claim.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#222

Post by throw1234651234 »

fastball wrote: post #139
throw1234651234 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no capability to increase supply. See my other post - Eastern Europe is out of coal and nat gas. Belarus has excess energy from Nuclear, but is still triaging exports. People will go without power this winter if this isn't done.

So don't rely on coal and nat gas? What about solar? Wind?

Europe tried that, now they are trying to buy more gas from Russia. See Poland for an example.

The point of that real-time example? Wind and solar are great, but they take time and the infrastructure is not yet there. Nuclear is arguably cleaner and cheaper for the output in the long term. Of course, infrastructure for nuclear isn't there in Kazakhstan yet either.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#223

Post by ilamont »

latchkey wrote: post #209
ilamont wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crypto miners who set up shop in Northern NY to take advantage of cheap hydro and wind power caused electricity prices to spike for local residents, resulting in municipalities leveraging new taxes on the companies or issuing outright bans. This article is from 2018: Plattsburgh went over its power allotment and was forced to purchase electricity on the open market for far higher prices. This cost was distributed…

You picked off the easily googled articles that are unrelated to Coinmint and happened during the crypto boom in 2017 / 2018, when people were renting warehouses and filling them with miners. Everyone got rightfully pissed.

The article about the moratorium is from the summer, and if you are looking for the Coinmint angle, here you go (dated July 23, 2021):

https://www.northcountrynow.com/news/massena-town-board-plan...

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#224

Post by oblio »

fastball wrote: post #139
throw1234651234 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no capability to increase supply. See my other post - Eastern Europe is out of coal and nat gas. Belarus has excess energy from Nuclear, but is still triaging exports. People will go without power this winter if this isn't done.

So don't rely on coal and nat gas? What about solar? Wind?

Yup, the magic pixie fairy will manage to build out electricity producing capacity that takes years to decades to build in days, weeks or months at best.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#225

Post by georgeecollins »

g42gregory wrote: post #171

I am not getting the sense that people, who talking about global warming, will really follow up with the actions, when it concerns their wallets or their quality of life. Look at the number of the private jets at the COP26. Look at number of Hummers that Arnold Schwarzenegger (whom I love btw!) owns. He talks climate change but drives a Hummer. By the same token, people with money, progressive or otherwise, will cont…

To be fair, I think he is aware of the contradiction:

https://www.motor1.com/news/181048/schwarzenegger-shows-elec...

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#226

Post by politician »

oblio wrote: post #211
politician wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you're being downvoted by all of the people that refuse to own up to their own hypocrisy over this issue. You're exactly correct, of course. China manufactures the vast majority of this equipment, and China runs on coal.

It's not hypocrisy. We need computers for a lot of solid, real life uses. We don't need cryptocurrencies for almost anything being peddled. They're supposed to be decentralized, but you can't really use them that way in 99% of situations. They're supposed to be currencies and instead they're vehicles for speculation. Etc. I think their slogan should be: "You don't really need cryptocurrencies for that".

PoW crypocurrencies are global communications systems that offer nonrepudiation, instant settlement, and finality; a subset additionally offer privacy. It's valuable to people who need those guarantees. There are speculators in every market.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#227

Post by sudosysgen »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #169
coldpie wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm totally open to new ideas. Find a better hobby =/ This casino is not worth boiling the world.

It's not even 1% of global energy consumption. It's the oil companies who are boiling the world but nobody dares to touch them. The cars, the factories, the developed nations and their comfortable lifestyles supported by such a highly polluting economy. China is the most polluting country in the world, but will the US, Europe stop trading with it? No. How will the west survive without its cheap consumer products? The…

1% energy usage is far from a drop in the ocean. It's huge!

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#228

Post by matheusmoreira »

oblio wrote: post #211
politician wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you're being downvoted by all of the people that refuse to own up to their own hypocrisy over this issue. You're exactly correct, of course. China manufactures the vast majority of this equipment, and China runs on coal.

It's not hypocrisy. We need computers for a lot of solid, real life uses. We don't need cryptocurrencies for almost anything being peddled. They're supposed to be decentralized, but you can't really use them that way in 99% of situations. They're supposed to be currencies and instead they're vehicles for speculation. Etc. I think their slogan should be: "You don't really need cryptocurrencies for that".

I'll be the first to admit that bitcoin failed to achieve everything it was supposed to. However, criticizing cryptocurrency as a whole over energy usage of all things is hypocrisy. It's not even 1% of global energy consumption. The world is being destroyed, but not by this.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#229

Post by hanniabu »

makeworld wrote: post #213
TacticalCoder wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't ever let any Bitcoin or NFT shills get away with lying to you that their cryptocurrencies and CryptoKitties and Digital Pet Rocks run on renewable energy. Cryptokitties run on Ethereum and Ethereum is already partially using PoS. Now from day one people have said "PoW does not work" and yet PoW, so far, is still working. People are now saying "PoS does not work" and yet, so far, PoS is working. The cryptocurr…

If PoS comes, it'll be something to stop criticizing Ethereum over. It'll still be useful to criticize cryptocurrencies in general. See Bitcoin, Monero, etc.

> If PoS comes

Like they said, it's already here. The only thing that's left is to end PoW which will happen within the next ~5 months.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#230

Post by hanniabu »

obiwan14 wrote: post #110

Is Texas next? Given that several mining companies have set up or about to set up shop on Rockdale and Pyote. And this is a state that endured a major grid crisis early this year.

That'd be tough, they'd need to figure out the mental gymnastics with their muh freedom narratives, especially since this is something that'd be good for the environment which it seems they're adamantly against.
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