Don’t be spooky • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t be spooky

#181

Post by willis936 » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 4:38 AM UTC

taeric wrote: post #145

LogonType10 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the opposite. You lay off on a Monday so you have 5 business days to call recruiters. You give a promotion or bonus on a Friday so the employee can celebrate on the weekend and won't slack off the rest of the week.

This feels like the area of advice where you can probably concoct a narrative that supports any particular day of the week. :D

I believe this was a joke in 1999's Office Space.

Specifically: incompetent bosses mis-citing a study supposedly saying it's a good idea to fire at the end of the week.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#182

Post by musicale » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #39

madamelic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always respond with "Yep, have a minute right now" regardless of what's happening. I'm not going to do more work if I am going to get walked out so work stops _right now_ to resolve the vaguery, so in the end there is a net loss in productivity when the message could've been, "Need to chat about , no rush", then we can minimize context loss for 2+ people. Basically the same length but clarified.

I just say "sure, what about?" If I'm curious.

When they stonewall, you know it's time to look for another job.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#183

Post by kovac » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 4:46 AM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #113

wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. What this article leaves out is the correct opening to the story. "A person who can arbitrarily make your life hell, including by ending your job right now, tells you 'let’s talk when you get a minute.'" I think the standard American corporate system of power is kinda ridiculous. But it is what it is, and whenever I'm a manager in that kind of system I try hard to remember that everything I say has that pref…

The American system is designed to keep the power balance by making it easy to get another job. Yes, there's some economic power difference - and sometimes it is out of balance. The idea that your boss has control over you is silly; your boss has the control over you that you give them in exchange for compensation, and you can always just quit - I wish people would do so more, because many of the worst attributes of…

While I agree that quitting should be the way, to add to the rest of the comments, there are also other forces at play like the length of your tenure at your previous company, references from previous employers, reason for leaving and the stigma around mentioning anything negative about your previous boss/employer in an interview in the answer to that question can make this a tricky thing.

It seems to me that much of the system is designed in a way that gives a lot of power to the employer.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#184

Post by musicale » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 4:47 AM UTC

"We need to talk" aka "you're [doomed]"

Re: Don’t be spooky

#185

Post by mark-r » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 4:50 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #142

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting laid off and shown the door immediately after (plus having your access to systems and buildings revoked) is very common. The reason for this is because the HR person drafting this policy probably had someone take advantage of the window between when someone is told they are laid off and when they are actually terminated, and so the policy gets made to reduce that liability. It sucks for the 90% of people who…

I dunno, as a European that sounds absolutely mental to me. How about transfer of knowledge and ownership of projects?

In the U.S. sometimes your first hint of an impending layoff is when you're asked to train your replacement. And sometimes the layoff means the project you were working on is being cancelled. My own most recent experience is that the project wasn't cancelled, but it was pared back to life support.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#186

Post by nucleardog » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 4:59 AM UTC

Jolter wrote: post #117

maneesh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about not bringing a gun into work and "going postal" (named after a situation with a post office employee)

Why would that be a more likely situation if you’re escorted out of the building on a Friday than it would be on a Tuesday?

No one's in the office Saturday and Sunday.

A Friday shit-can means you have to keep the rage up and avoid letting rationale thought take hold for a few _days_ before the opportunity for a shooting spree at work is available. And chances are you've got a support network that'll be available Fri/Sat night to go have a drink and bitch with.

A Tuesday shit-can means less support network (it's a work night for everyone else) and everyone you want to murder back in the office less than 24 hours later.

I'm not taking a position here, but I can see a definite difference between a Tuesday and a Friday lay-off.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#187

Post by mark-r » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 5:00 AM UTC

ljm wrote: post #146

Jolter wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some weird behavior at my employer perhaps. We had several rounds of layoffs during my tenure and they were always announced at an all-hands meeting at 9 AM, announced the same morning. I still get nervous any time there’s a meeting called for 9. At least they had the good sense to not announce them for the next day.

Thursday, 10am: Company All-Hands. Scheduled at short notice. First 10 or 15 minutes is beating around the bush about how well things have been going, buuuuut.... Another 10 minutes of different leaders explaining how difficult the decision was, crocodile tears and all. Everyone, meanwhile, is waiting for leadership to stop wasting time and get to the point. If it wasn't obvious at the start, it would be crystal clea…

I never got to attend that all-hands meeting. The company scheduled two meetings at the same time - one all-hands, except for about 10 of us who were scheduled for the other one. It didn't take too much imagination to figure out what the second meeting was about. This was about 3 months after our company had been acquired.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#188

Post by mark-r » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

geogra4 wrote: post #172

kevinmchugh wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most managers I've had appreciate being told individually. If there's any chance at all you'd take a counter offer, you should let management know privately. Theyre less likely to counter if you're news is known publicly. (Imo never take a counter but always listen to one. That's valuable market information)

6 years later and I definitely regret taking a counter offer.

Once you've announced your intention to leave, even just privately, it changes your relationship. Accepting a counter-offer is just going to leave things awkward.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#189

Post by nucleardog » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

version_five wrote: post #77

thebean11 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, when I left my last company I felt it was important to deliver the news in person. I had been with my manager 3 years and an email didn’t seem right.

Having been both an employer and manager giving and hearing "major" news (departure / restructuring, etc as is being discussed), I'm torn. On one hand, we are conditioned that its important to deliver news in person and not hide behind email, and I agree with this - it's much more collegial to have a conversation. On the other hand, I don't react well to having news spring on me. My heart can race, I need some time t…

This is why I generally treat stuff like that as a two-meeting problem.

The first meeting I don't beat around the bush, I get to the point within 60 seconds. I explain what I need to explain, and don't really leave them a chance to feel like they need to talk.

I finish up by telling them if they have any questions right now I'm totally happy to answer them and discuss, but I'm scheduling a follow-up meeting at $earlyTime tomorrow so they can sleep on it and we'll check in and have a follow-up conversation. And also that if anything comes to mind late tonight, they wake up in a cold sweat, whatever, to give me a call and I'm happy to talk whenever.

Because yes, even the most composed people I've worked with have been thrown for a loop by stuff like this and the first meeting is never really a productive two-way conversation. I just try and make it make as much sense as possible and don't take anything personally, and then have the real conversation about it the next day.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#190

Post by lars512 » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 5:21 AM UTC

Honestly, this stuff is hard.

I understand this can be stressful, and a manager should never accidentally flag that they want a difficult and serious conversation by accident. Sometimes you need that conversation though, and foreshadowing it by giving context in text form is not better.

Best case I think is simply to come see someone and speak to them immediately, or give them a phone call and do it that way.

Second best is a meeting as soon as possible. When you need to speak to several people, it can be very stressful too to try to catch them one by one, find some are unavailable or not responsive, when you are trying to be respectful by sharing difficult news ahead of the grape vine.