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Don’t be spooky

therealadam.com

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Re: Don’t be spooky

#151

Post by quickthrower2 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #20
logicchop wrote: post #15

The way I see it, if "let's talk when you get a minute" comes across as spooky that means you already have a communication breakdown and mistrust has already blossomed. Here's a slightly different scenario: You have a disagreement with management; there are many subsequent conversations happening behind the scenes; but no one keeps you in the loop or updates you on what is being decided. In that situation, practicall…

It’s impossible for me not to have any fear of someone whose job is (in part) evaluating and criticizing my work and determining whether I should be fired.

Not even just fired: just promotions, pay review, future reference, work allocation and pleasantness (or lack of) in the future.

I learnt in one job never question anyone superior in a Jira comment. Although innocent I was taken to task for it and I believe my life got worse after that point. I was just trying to solve some technical thing. I wasn’t fired but I still didn’t have fun.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#152

Post by wibblewobble123 »

metters wrote: post #91

> deliver constructive but critical feedback as close to the “original sin” as possible. Receiving feedback that you did poorly weeks after the fact is disconcerting. It can lead the recipient to wondering what other things they’re doing poorly but won’t hear about until later. This is very true. It happened to me some time ago, that I was performing very poorly - at least according to my team (I think it is at least…

Performance reviews are similar. My company did a bi-yearly performance review one year and my manager wrote up their views of where I did bad on each thing through that half of the year. I spent the whole time annoyed that rather than telling me in the moment, it was deemed acceptable to wait months and then give me a laundry list of things I could have done better. What a slap in the face. I was told in the spirit that I’d somehow be grateful for the chance to better myself. I started looking at the job market.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#153

Post by User23 »

Aeolun wrote: post #142
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting laid off and shown the door immediately after (plus having your access to systems and buildings revoked) is very common. The reason for this is because the HR person drafting this policy probably had someone take advantage of the window between when someone is told they are laid off and when they are actually terminated, and so the policy gets made to reduce that liability. It sucks for the 90% of people who…

I dunno, as a European that sounds absolutely mental to me. How about transfer of knowledge and ownership of projects?

In the USA a layoff is usually a euphemism for termination with cause that can’t be supported in court. Because of the general litigiousness and at-will nature of most employment contracts here it usually means the employer offers a token severance payment in exchange for signing a general release.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#154

Post by wpietri »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #113
wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. What this article leaves out is the correct opening to the story. "A person who can arbitrarily make your life hell, including by ending your job right now, tells you 'let’s talk when you get a minute.'" I think the standard American corporate system of power is kinda ridiculous. But it is what it is, and whenever I'm a manager in that kind of system I try hard to remember that everything I say has that pref…

The American system is designed to keep the power balance by making it easy to get another job. Yes, there's some economic power difference - and sometimes it is out of balance. The idea that your boss has control over you is silly; your boss has the control over you that you give them in exchange for compensation, and you can always just quit - I wish people would do so more, because many of the worst attributes of…

I mean, I think designed is a bit strong here. And the long history of labor restriction, including today's tendency toward non-competes, clearly suggests it's not working so well. But to the extent that people do quit jobs, that does certainly help.

But you're very breezy here about quitting jobs. It's easy enough for a young, single guy in a hot industry. It's quite difficult for others, especially given how things like health care are tied to employment.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#155

Post by roland35 »

labcomputer wrote: post #95
newsbinator wrote: post #2

> When you’re communicating with your team, lead with context and reassurance. Never message someone on your team, “let’s talk when you get a minute”. That’s void of information and scary as heck! This should be engraved on a plaque in every office building.

Amen. I automatically assume that an all-hands meeting (one that isn't part of a quarterly schedule, announced months in advance) without context is about layoffs and start looking at my resume.

At one of my jobs we had SO MANY of these all-hands meetings quickly scheduled 10 minutes ahead of the start time... It gets too stressful after a while!

Re: Don’t be spooky

#156

Post by kevinmchugh »

Aeolun wrote: post #142
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting laid off and shown the door immediately after (plus having your access to systems and buildings revoked) is very common. The reason for this is because the HR person drafting this policy probably had someone take advantage of the window between when someone is told they are laid off and when they are actually terminated, and so the policy gets made to reduce that liability. It sucks for the 90% of people who…

I dunno, as a European that sounds absolutely mental to me. How about transfer of knowledge and ownership of projects?

Layoffs usually mean something is wrong with the company or division. Zillow is laying off tons of employees after making bad decisions. Knowledge transfer is less important than survival (apparently).

Re: Don’t be spooky

#157

Post by kevinmchugh »

Jolter wrote: post #118
Waterluvian wrote: post #41

Early in my career I got a Monday morning meeting invite on a Friday afternoon just after I left the office. The meeting was called “The future of “ Entire weekend was a write off. I was so anxious. And yep. They shut down the unit (but I got to keep my job). As a result this is forefront in my mind as a manager. One thing that works great is whenever I ask questions about something, anything, I also say “this is on…

Some weird behavior at my employer perhaps. We had several rounds of layoffs during my tenure and they were always announced at an all-hands meeting at 9 AM, announced the same morning. I still get nervous any time there’s a meeting called for 9. At least they had the good sense to not announce them for the next day.

Same day, all hands meetings are always a bad sign in my experience. Good news can wait.

Almost any time there's a same-day all hands I write off the entire day after getting the invite

Re: Don’t be spooky

#158

Post by kevinmchugh »

sharken wrote: post #128
dharmab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I announced I was leaving to my team, I titled the meeting "Future of (project name)"

Another way of doing it is on the Daily Standup, when the topic moves on to Anything else?

Most managers I've had appreciate being told individually. If there's any chance at all you'd take a counter offer, you should let management know privately. Theyre less likely to counter if you're news is known publicly.

(Imo never take a counter but always listen to one. That's valuable market information)

Re: Don’t be spooky

#159

Post by kevinmchugh »

koboll wrote: post #22
newsbinator wrote: post #2

> When you’re communicating with your team, lead with context and reassurance. Never message someone on your team, “let’s talk when you get a minute”. That’s void of information and scary as heck! This should be engraved on a plaque in every office building.

I'd like to be able to follow this advice always, but what about when, say, you're scheduling a call with your manager to let them know you're leaving the team? Do I lead with context by titling the meeting "Discuss my Departure"?

Your manager will know that you're probably resigning when your ask for their time without specifying a subject. They're paid to know that and react appropriately. Don't worry about it.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#160

Post by ssss11 »

Aeolun wrote: post #141
ssss11 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve just made me think about memories I’ve surpressed of a job I had, where the boss would hold Monday morning meetings every week to go around the table and get updates from the team. He took the opportunity to pick on someone different each time and rip them to shreds. It was a horrible thing to be part of. Needless to say my Sunday evenings were a write off during that period with the stress of having to go to…

What could compel someone to want to start their Monday morning that way?

Prior to this job I’d hear people talk about terrible bosses and think they must be somehow exaggerating because I hadn’t experienced it, but no, these people exist.

I almost think he was sociopathic or something. No one else I’ve ever come across has been any where near as cruel.

In the end managing by force or coercion don’t work in my opinion, people don’t want to work for those managers. His entire leadership group turned over in the 9 months I was there. That was the longest 9 months of my career.

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