Don’t be spooky • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t be spooky

#51

Post by milofeynman » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

Thank you for this. I don't like the anxiety I feel when my manager does this to me. I always give context when I ask one of my ICs if they have a minute to talk, because I empathize with that feeling and don't ever want to give it to anyone else.

Go through a startup layoff? It can weigh in you for a few years. Are they going to re-org? Did I do something? Is my team going to get cut or moved around?

It's also subtle, so it's not obvious when a good manager does this right. It's just really obvious when a less-good manager does it...

Re: Don’t be spooky

#52

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

dharmab wrote: post #24

koboll wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to be able to follow this advice always, but what about when, say, you're scheduling a call with your manager to let them know you're leaving the team? Do I lead with context by titling the meeting "Discuss my Departure"?

When I announced I was leaving to my team, I titled the meeting "Future of (project name)"

IMO, that sounds super spooky!

Re: Don’t be spooky

#53

Post by bitwize » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

Because of increasing awareness of "spook" as a racial slur, it's probably wise not to casually throw around words like "spooky" anymore.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#54

Post by dennyabraham » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

grantjpowell wrote: post #49

newsbinator wrote: post #2

> When you’re communicating with your team, lead with context and reassurance. Never message someone on your team, “let’s talk when you get a minute”. That’s void of information and scary as heck! This should be engraved on a plaque in every office building.

As silly as it sounds, I use the technique of using of using _really_ informal language to avoid spookiness "Wanna see somthing cool?" "Lets shoot the shit after this" "Yo, you wanna hang for a minute at 4"

Unfortunately, for people that don't know you, this can be spooky to the other person while reassuring yourself. If you can be specific and provide context, you can prepare the person to engage you much faster and more effectively.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#55

Post by draw_down » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

webtopf wrote: post #5

It works the other way around too. As a manager, when some of my employees sent me messages like: "Can we talk when you have some time?" One of my immediate fears was that they are quitting because he found another job. That happened only once, the other 300 times it was just about something they were working on and needed more information.

Sure, but "my manager is gonna fire me, after which I will be unemployed" and "my job will get somewhat harder because a report is leaving" are two different outcomes to be scared of. In one of them the person is unemployed. Also, managers typically expect employees to leave at some point.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#56

Post by thebean11 » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

jlund-molfese wrote: post #25

koboll wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to be able to follow this advice always, but what about when, say, you're scheduling a call with your manager to let them know you're leaving the team? Do I lead with context by titling the meeting "Discuss my Departure"?

I’d usually first communicate that in an email where you express your appreciation and briefly explain why you’re leaving, along with your last day. Then the manager will usually schedule an exit interview for the report (or, if you’re at a bad company, fire you on the spot).

Eh, when I left my last company I felt it was important to deliver the news in person. I had been with my manager 3 years and an email didn’t seem right.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#57

Post by DangitBobby » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

nuclearnice1 wrote: post #11

It’s good advice for many circumstances. Do a little 5 whys analysis and ask why in the absence of information your employees are moved to terror. It might be a normal human reaction and an unavoidable power asymmetry between labor and management. On the other hand, if the median expectation is terror, perhaps that provides some valuable information about the background energy left behind from all your other communic…

1. Why are they afraid of meetings without a stated purpose beforehand? Often the reason you wouldn't state a purpose is because you would rather do so in person, which usually means bad news.

2. Why does firing cause terror? Bad news could be a firing, which can be done at any moment without cause or notice.

3. Why would that cause terror? They need a job to have money.

4. ...

Re: Don’t be spooky

#58

Post by simonswords82 » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #53

Because of increasing awareness of "spook" as a racial slur, it's probably wise not to casually throw around words like "spooky" anymore.

Oh come on...you cannot be serious.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#59

Post by dennyabraham » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

logicchop wrote: post #15

The way I see it, if "let's talk when you get a minute" comes across as spooky that means you already have a communication breakdown and mistrust has already blossomed. Here's a slightly different scenario: You have a disagreement with management; there are many subsequent conversations happening behind the scenes; but no one keeps you in the loop or updates you on what is being decided. In that situation, practicall…

The problem with that is that we don't know how another person finds our communication. The reason the phrase "let's talk" leads to alarm bells is because one side has the self-assured feeling that they have good communication and don't take the other side's ability to respond into account. Moreover, when we initiate a work-related meeting with no context, we provide no frame of mind or ability to prepare to the other party.

If our request isn't high value enough to provide the other person additional context, our request isn't so important it can't wait until coincidence or regular schedule allows the discussion. We're responding to our own feelings of urgency in the moment rather than the planned and understood needs of our roles. When we do that, our communication, even if we feel like it is healthy and well-built, is only coincidentally so and its health is subject to swift erosion.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#60

Post by jrootabega » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

I think the kind of managers who would follow this advice (i.e., decent humans) would just figure it out the first time they scared somebody. Many/most don't give a crap, or can't even conceive of their underlings as humans.