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What happens to used electric car batteries?

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Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#51

Post by akolbe »

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #26
idrisser wrote: post #18

These articles are insane, 10min in until you get to the part of what happens to used batteries. I’m really thinking the media business model is totally broken for these authors to not go straight to the point

It is more opinion than investigative journalism. This is the only information about what actually happens to batteries. It is very imprecise. And limited to one company "When batteries can’t be fixed or reused, the company recycles some at its onsite facility. It also stores batteries. Lots of them. SNT’s main warehouse in Oklahoma City holds hundreds of electric car batteries, stacked on shelves that jut 30 feet in…

Kind of surprised there is barely a mention of second-life use of old EV batteries, e.g. for energy storage applications. Which is something GM (along with others) has said it is pursuing. See https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/car-makers-and-...

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#52

Post by jasoncartwright »

tzs wrote: post #50

For old EV batteries where the only reason they need replacement is reduced capacity I wonder if they might be useful in some stationary applications? I'd love to have a whole-house battery backup system for the occasional power outage, but systems with new batteries are too expensive. An 80 kWh battery, say, that has lost half its capacity would have been enough to get me through most outages I've seen since moving…

BMW have deals to do reuse old batteries for static storage. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/united-kingdom/article/detail...

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#53

Post by goinfar »

tzs wrote: post #50

For old EV batteries where the only reason they need replacement is reduced capacity I wonder if they might be useful in some stationary applications? I'd love to have a whole-house battery backup system for the occasional power outage, but systems with new batteries are too expensive. An 80 kWh battery, say, that has lost half its capacity would have been enough to get me through most outages I've seen since moving…

There is a booming market for people that use them in camper vans/overland style vehicle applications alongside solar panels.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#54

Post by drewg123 »

tzs wrote: post #50

For old EV batteries where the only reason they need replacement is reduced capacity I wonder if they might be useful in some stationary applications? I'd love to have a whole-house battery backup system for the occasional power outage, but systems with new batteries are too expensive. An 80 kWh battery, say, that has lost half its capacity would have been enough to get me through most outages I've seen since moving…

I'm not very knowledgeable about this, but don't think they fail this gracefully.

I thought that a lot of the battery failures in EVs was due to the failures of individual cells (like AA batteries) within modules, which make it impossible for the BMS to balance power between modules. There was a recent youtube video where an old Model S had its range dramatically reduced to less than 25% because a module had 2 bad cells. The cells were replaced, and the car works as normal now. There was a debate about how long-term that fix would be (eg, would the same thing happen soon, as other cells die).

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#55

Post by jaclaz »

cogman10 wrote: post #42
jaclaz wrote: post #33

I see this as very relevant: >In Oklahoma City, the batteries in the SNT warehouse mostly came from cars that are still under warranty, which means the automakers are responsible for them. Tyler Helps, the company’s head of business development, says automakers are paying SNT to keep their old batteries because they don’t know what the used battery market is going to look like and whether the materials inside the bat…

The question is how much material can be reclaimed from the battery. Batteries are resource gold mines with most material readily available (the casing, for example, would be the easiest thing to recycle). Further, simple recycling (burn everything) of the inner parts is almost certainly worth it just to reclaim the current contents of nickel and cobalt. What's not clear is if other resources can be reclaimed or if t…

>The question is how much material can be reclaimed from the battery.

My question was rather different, much more simple/practical.

Today (not tomorrow, not ten years from now) I own a "normal" ICE car and for some reasons it breaks beyond any possible repair.

Currently (and it may depend on countries) I can sell the wreck to someone authorized to dismantle it and get a few hundred bucks for it or - in the worst case - pay someone to dismantle/recycle it a few hundred bucks (and I can - within limits - choose among many companies that provide this services according to the current Law).

What would happen (still today) if the car was an electric one?

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#56

Post by ydant »

morsch wrote: post #22
russellbeattie wrote: post #4

We need legislation immediately which requires that all new batteries are designed and made to be disassembled for recycling both easily and cheaply. Do it now, while the industry is ramping up so the costs can be built into the system. Also, every battery that is produced should have a serial number on it. These are not things that can just be dumped in a hole and forgotten. The manufacturer of that battery should b…

Ideal is detergent powder in recycled paper packaging. Or would be, I don't think you can buy it that way.

When I was growing up, (all?) laundry detergent /was/ powder in a cardboard box. I recently remembered that as we tried to move to powdered detergent again - and found it really difficult to find locally, and at a reasonable price per load. There are some online retailers (like "Meliora") which offer it (but then you're adding the small-scale shipping into the environmental equation), so we've just been buying it in bulk that way. And it works perfectly well. They ship their refills in a small brown paper bag - not sure if it's recycled, but the overall impact has to be minimal compared to plastic tubs.

Same with dishwasher detergent. It /used/ to be powder. There's still powder now easy to find, at least, and it works perfectly fine.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#57

Post by the-dude »

goinfar wrote: post #53
tzs wrote: post #50

For old EV batteries where the only reason they need replacement is reduced capacity I wonder if they might be useful in some stationary applications? I'd love to have a whole-house battery backup system for the occasional power outage, but systems with new batteries are too expensive. An 80 kWh battery, say, that has lost half its capacity would have been enough to get me through most outages I've seen since moving…

There is a booming market for people that use them in camper vans/overland style vehicle applications alongside solar panels.

Would you have any links to projects?

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#58

Post by syshum »

jaclaz wrote: post #33

I see this as very relevant: >In Oklahoma City, the batteries in the SNT warehouse mostly came from cars that are still under warranty, which means the automakers are responsible for them. Tyler Helps, the company’s head of business development, says automakers are paying SNT to keep their old batteries because they don’t know what the used battery market is going to look like and whether the materials inside the bat…

This has all the hallmarks of liability shift as well. Akin to the "superfund" sites. While I dont think this will be that extreme I can see more than a few of these companies that just house this kind of thing quietly going bankrupt leaving the local (or federal) tax payers holding the bill to do the proper disposal

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#59

Post by fho »

beloch wrote: post #19
idrisser wrote: post #18

These articles are insane, 10min in until you get to the part of what happens to used batteries. I’m really thinking the media business model is totally broken for these authors to not go straight to the point

It's long form (although somewhat short for that). Consider yourself lucky that this article even has a descriptive title and gets around to addressing it at some point in the body. A lot of long form journalism is just a click-bait title with rambling. Personally, I think long-form writers need to start including abstracts. If I'm going to spend half an hour reading something, I'd like to know what it's about before…

Haven't read the article ... But I am always taken aback by these "and now we look at the complete life of the guy that did whatever the article is actually about"-detours.

When I read an article about about ... fishing in Alaska ... I was btw born in the last millenia and had a pretty normal childhood. But if you dig out school colleagues of mine you will find somebody who will tell you I was a strange kid in school .

5 minutes later I have still not read anything about fishing in Alaska.

Feels like complete filler material to me, probably to increase "engagement".

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#60

Post by sokoloff »

drewg123 wrote: post #54
tzs wrote: post #50

For old EV batteries where the only reason they need replacement is reduced capacity I wonder if they might be useful in some stationary applications? I'd love to have a whole-house battery backup system for the occasional power outage, but systems with new batteries are too expensive. An 80 kWh battery, say, that has lost half its capacity would have been enough to get me through most outages I've seen since moving…

I'm not very knowledgeable about this, but don't think they fail this gracefully. I thought that a lot of the battery failures in EVs was due to the failures of individual cells (like AA batteries) within modules, which make it impossible for the BMS to balance power between modules. There was a recent youtube video where an old Model S had its range dramatically reduced to less than 25% because a module had 2 bad ce…

My LEAF had that repair done under warranty (cell #17 was dramatically weaker than the rest, resulting in the pack suddenly having around 33% range and 50% power). Repair was disassemble, change module #9 (cells 17&18), reassemble but took about 2 calendar weeks for parts and trained labor reasons (repair itself was done in a single day).

3.25 years later there is no evidence of recurrence/spread and battery diagnostics are all good. That’s an N of 1, but I don’t see any structural reason to think my battery would now be any different than the sibling car’s battery that was next off the production line (assuming there was no additional fault introduced during service).

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