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Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

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Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#131

Post by louloulou »

swman wrote: post #84
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

Honestly do we really need cryptocurrency? I don’t want my transactions public. I like exchanging cash for weed (legal in California) and nobody needs to know regardless. I also don’t understand what’s wrong with USD. I grew up in a third world country so maybe it could help people there but in USA? I’m happy with the dollar fluctuations vs four digit fluctuations daily. Can someone give me a good explain?

Who's "we"? Maybe you don't need it. Personally, I don't need golf courses, professional football or a new phone every year.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#132

Post by gefhfff »

vadfa wrote: post #115
gefhfff wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is externalizing the cost to the rest of society as there is either no or a too small carbon tax while the estimated cost on society varies between 700 Euros [0] and 100.000$ [1] [0] https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/daten/umwelt-wirtschaft/gesel... [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-020-02785-4

If the estimated cost on society "varies between 700 Euros [0] and 100.000$ [1]" then those scientists should be back to the drawing board because those two numbers can't make sense at the same time. Also I don't see why only a small part of society should be paying for that "carbon tax" - all citizens should pay an amount corresponding to their energy spending and then we are back to miners not externalising anythin…

As said those are estimates. In any case you see the current carbon tax is not anywhere near the cost. It's worth to mention those cost depend on past, present and future emissions as well.

Where did I say that only a small part should be paying the real cost? That's a straw man.

And no: miners are externalizing exactly because the lack of a carbon tax. And from my experience they are not very interested in introducing one either.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#133

Post by swalsh »

swman wrote: post #84
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

Honestly do we really need cryptocurrency? I don’t want my transactions public. I like exchanging cash for weed (legal in California) and nobody needs to know regardless. I also don’t understand what’s wrong with USD. I grew up in a third world country so maybe it could help people there but in USA? I’m happy with the dollar fluctuations vs four digit fluctuations daily. Can someone give me a good explain?

Not all crypto is money. ETH for example (which will soon be proof of stake... and more energy efficient) could be considered more accurately as a really large (but relatively slow) computer that never turns off. This plus infrastructure like ipfs enables a brand new internet. Completely decentralized and free of the strangle hold of large tech companies.

To me, money and profit is less important than freedom. Web 3.0 to me is a chance to build a better future.

(For the record, I have no investments in btc, eth, or any proof of work chains. I am invested in AVAX, which has a more energy efficient consensus protocol)

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#134

Post by skohan »

gefhfff wrote: post #114
skohan wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That all might be true, but there are ways to improve on those points. For instance thorium reactors are much more efficient in terms of waste, and they are much safer. A lot of problems we have with Nuclear is because the tech most widely used was created with a side goal of advancing nuclear weapon production. I'm by no means a nuclear maximalist, but I could see better nuclear being a component of a larger sustain…

Thorium reactors are a castle in the air

Everything is until it isn't right? Do you think there's a fundamental problem there, or is it just taking too long?

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#135

Post by wruza »

pkz wrote: post #75
baby wrote: post #41

I predict that there will be a bigger and bigger wave of bad press about proof of work. I also predict that cryptocurrencies as a whole will suffer from that due to the inability of the medias to understand that Bitcoin is not representative of all blockchain technologies. It’s a shame because today most modern cryptocurrencies are not based on proof of work.

This is an important fact. A lot of people think crypto currency==bitcoin. It would be a lot easier to have meaningful discussions on the impact on society if more effort was spent on helping people understand the different types. Maybe Bitcoin will fade away eventually and some other type of currency will be the monetary lingua franca?

A lot of people think crypto currency==bitcoin

Because economically that’s true. There is no crypto (even ETH) which could stay at its price when BTC goes up and down by a magnitude. Of course they are correlated, like INTC may correlate with APPL when markets go crazy, but this link is too rigid for all crypto under bitcoin even when it’s relatively quiet.

I don’t understand an exact reason behind this, but I believe it’s related to how crypto exchanges work internally.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#136

Post by mytailorisrich »

progre wrote: post #128
vadfa wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear is clean and sustainable and can allow people to mine bitcoin and even heat their homes, which seems to be a problem currently in some regions of Europe.

As someone living near one of europes largest uranium deposits, i can tell you that nuclear itself might be clean, but getting the fuel is anything but. Uranium dont come in nice nuggets like gold, its mixed up with other things so that its only fractions of grams per ton of rock you have to mine. When this rock is processed we are left with big holes in the ground that shifts the level of the waterbed, and big piles…

Same for the minerals needed for batteries or most other things.

This is mining.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#137

Post by VMG »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #66
VMG wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This merely pushes Bitcoin mining to countries that do not have this kind of regulation (and probably have less renewable energy).

Then let’s ban this waste of electricity everywhere. I’m all for the idea of crypto currency, but I’m not in support or baking the planet just so a few people can get some virtual goods.

Isn't it interesting that it is never a "waste" if it is the Pentagon that is polluting and poisoning the world.

But if there is a technology that threatens government power, suddenly it's suddenly all about the Earth.

For many people, Bitcoin is the only reliable technology to prevent their savings to be destroyed by inflation and to evade cruel sanctions. Your opinion has no value to them.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#138

Post by VMG »

Jensson wrote: post #85
DeusExMachina wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you define waste of electricity? You writing that comment might as well be declared a waste and prohibited.

People decide that democratically. This is just like how California bans all showerheads that gives you more than a trickle of water, since they see good showers as a waste of water (All of USA has a similar ban but less restrictive). Just that in Sweden they ban wasteful businesses rather than "wasteful" quality of life improvements.

And like many other "democratic" decisions, it's just a feel-good measure. Watering your lawn is apparently a worthwhile use of resources, according to the Demos.
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