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Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

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Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#71

Post by VMG »

rebuilder wrote: post #42
VMG wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This merely pushes Bitcoin mining to countries that do not have this kind of regulation (and probably have less renewable energy).

It would still raise the cost of mining. And those countries that do not ban mining will face increasing pressure to do so, due to miners pushing energy prices up. But yes, an international treaty banning PoW crypto mining would be more effective. Then confiscate the equipment and use it to attack the networks.

High mining cost is what provides network security.

I doubt there will be popular support for military interventions against Bitcoin. But if a "War against Bitcoin" were to happen, it would probably be as successful as the "War on Drugs" and "War on Terror"

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#73

Post by DeusExMachina »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #66
VMG wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This merely pushes Bitcoin mining to countries that do not have this kind of regulation (and probably have less renewable energy).

Then let’s ban this waste of electricity everywhere. I’m all for the idea of crypto currency, but I’m not in support or baking the planet just so a few people can get some virtual goods.

How you define waste of electricity? You writing that comment might as well be declared a waste and prohibited.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#75

Post by pkz »

baby wrote: post #41

I predict that there will be a bigger and bigger wave of bad press about proof of work. I also predict that cryptocurrencies as a whole will suffer from that due to the inability of the medias to understand that Bitcoin is not representative of all blockchain technologies. It’s a shame because today most modern cryptocurrencies are not based on proof of work.

This is an important fact. A lot of people think crypto currency==bitcoin. It would be a lot easier to have meaningful discussions on the impact on society if more effort was spent on helping people understand the different types. Maybe Bitcoin will fade away eventually and some other type of currency will be the monetary lingua franca?

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#76

Post by pfortuny »

roenxi wrote: post #10

The basic idea of the economy is people can earn the right to energy, and then direct it to a goal of their choosing. The government making a value judgement about what type of commercial activity is worthwhile is extremely risky. Countries with innovative financial and credit systems have historically steamrolled those that don't have such innovations. We still don't understand the nature of crypto.

Countries also ban ponzi schemes and nobody raises an eyebrow.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#77

Post by fulafel »

guerrilla wrote: post #38
BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #23

The background is this: The Swedish government (of which the green party is part) has closed down several nuclear reactors and there is a ban on building more hydro electric dams. Before Sweden had about 50% hydro + 50% nuclear. Now electricity prices are rising a lot, especially on days when there is little wind (which generally is the case on extremely cold winter days), and emergency power plants using fossil fuel…

Your comment on hydro isn't relevant since hydro output hasn't actually changed[1], meanwhile wind production has overall replaced nuclear. Total production has increased slightly while total domestic consumption has decreased slightly. So basically it comes down to increased exports and variability of wind. 1. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/El...

Increased exports will probably continue and accelerate if nothing is stopping new transmission capacity from being built, the hydro is such a good pairing for wind in continental europe.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#78

Post by azaras »

peakaboo wrote: post #40
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

I feel like you guys are completely inside the matrix here so allow me to explain... Bitcoin is being fought by banks and governments because it threatens the dollar and the banking system. The future they want is a global coin, not a decentralized currency.

Then, how is it? Mining bitcoins does not use a lot of electricity.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#79

Post by skohan »

mtsr wrote: post #56
tshaddox wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually using government mandates to curtain negative externalities would look way different though, right? The negative externality of energy production is the same per unit energy regardless of what the energy ends up being used for.

It’s not about the negative externality of energy production, but the negative externality of Bitcoin mining. Using significant percentage of the available renewable energy, driving up prices and forcing other industries that are far less optional to resort to non-renewable energy. And probably even preventing other net-good uses of cheap energy from ever coming into existence.

Yeah exactly. Another example would be the impact on GPU prices: mining almost certainly plays a role in making GPUs less accessible, which raises the cost of ML for example. There's probably innovations which would affect the world in a positive way which we don't have right now because of the barrier to entry to ML research created by high GPU prices.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#80

Post by DeusExMachina »

newaccount74 wrote: post #60
vadfa wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear is clean and sustainable and can allow people to mine bitcoin and even heat their homes, which seems to be a problem currently in some regions of Europe.

Nuclear energy may not release CO2 into the atmosphere, but that doesn't make it clean and sustainable: - you need to store radioactive waste for hundreds of years - "safe" permanent storage sites often end up not not being actually safe 50 years later - warming rivers by using the water for cooling may wreck local ecosystems The only thing that is actually sustainable is not using all the energy in the first place.…

Nuclear waste is much safer than all other waste from energy production:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/06/19...

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