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Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

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Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#51

Post by Blackstone4 »

VMG wrote: post #35
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

This merely pushes Bitcoin mining to countries that do not have this kind of regulation (and probably have less renewable energy).

Yes and the same argument is used for all green laws which makes things like manufacturing more expensive. When becoming greener, we have to start some where

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#52

Post by JustinVx »

vadfa wrote: post #29
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

Nuclear is clean and sustainable and can allow people to mine bitcoin and even heat their homes, which seems to be a problem currently in some regions of Europe.

Nuclear doesn’t produce any greenhouse gasses, but with the radioactive waste it generates it of course isn’t really clean. It’s also expensive and takes decades to build.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#53

Post by agilob »

rebuilder wrote: post #42
VMG wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This merely pushes Bitcoin mining to countries that do not have this kind of regulation (and probably have less renewable energy).

It would still raise the cost of mining. And those countries that do not ban mining will face increasing pressure to do so, due to miners pushing energy prices up. But yes, an international treaty banning PoW crypto mining would be more effective. Then confiscate the equipment and use it to attack the networks.

Unless they buy their own coal plant?

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#54

Post by karamanolev »

peakaboo wrote: post #40
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

I feel like you guys are completely inside the matrix here so allow me to explain... Bitcoin is being fought by banks and governments because it threatens the dollar and the banking system. The future they want is a global coin, not a decentralized currency.

How about the people win against the evil banks and governments ... and then proceeds to drown in the rising oceans, burn in increased wildfires, freeze in extremely cold weather (including all the gas and coal power plants used to mine BTC, see recent Texas events).

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#55

Post by FDSGSG »

guerrilla wrote: post #38
BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #23

The background is this: The Swedish government (of which the green party is part) has closed down several nuclear reactors and there is a ban on building more hydro electric dams. Before Sweden had about 50% hydro + 50% nuclear. Now electricity prices are rising a lot, especially on days when there is little wind (which generally is the case on extremely cold winter days), and emergency power plants using fossil fuel…

Your comment on hydro isn't relevant since hydro output hasn't actually changed[1], meanwhile wind production has overall replaced nuclear. Total production has increased slightly while total domestic consumption has decreased slightly. So basically it comes down to increased exports and variability of wind. 1. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/El...

Why is it not relevant if growth of hydropower output has ceased? That seems like a perfectly relevant thing to point out.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#56

Post by mtsr »

tshaddox wrote: post #34
skohan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One role of government is to curtail negative externalities. If it's possible for a few people to profit by causing general harm through accelerating climate change, that would be well within the government's mandate to regulate against this. It's possible that cryptocurrency will be the future of finance. It's also entirely possible that crypto - which is incredibly expensive energy-wise per transaction - is actuall…

Actually using government mandates to curtain negative externalities would look way different though, right? The negative externality of energy production is the same per unit energy regardless of what the energy ends up being used for.

It’s not about the negative externality of energy production, but the negative externality of Bitcoin mining. Using significant percentage of the available renewable energy, driving up prices and forcing other industries that are far less optional to resort to non-renewable energy. And probably even preventing other net-good uses of cheap energy from ever coming into existence.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#57

Post by tommiegannert »

louloulou wrote: post #47

Ah, the electricity police strike again. You're allowed to use the electricity you paid for for some computations, but not for others. Seems logical and enforceable.

Just like rifles. Surely there are things that could be done if we start thinking about the problem space.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#58

Post by skohan »

FDSGSG wrote: post #45
skohan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using clean energy for mining still increases the total demand for electricity which is going to result in more dirty energy production no matter what.

Using clean energy for anything still increases the total demand for electricity which is going to result in more dirty energy production no matter what.

Yeah fine, but then it's still completely consistent that if your goal is to decrease overall energy consumption, you would find ways to curtail energy intensive activities which provide little social value.

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#59

Post by agilob »

peakaboo wrote: post #40
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

I feel like you guys are completely inside the matrix here so allow me to explain... Bitcoin is being fought by banks and governments because it threatens the dollar and the banking system. The future they want is a global coin, not a decentralized currency.

>Bitcoin is being fought

Proof of Work coins are being fought for governments because they committed to goals decided in Paris Agreement and PoW CCs are making it harder to achieve the goals. Swedes discuss banning Bitcoin, but not PoS coins or premined coins that do not have PoS or PoW

Re: Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto mining should be banned

#60

Post by newaccount74 »

vadfa wrote: post #29
seu wrote: post #3

"If we were to allow extensive mining of crypto-assets in Sweden, there is a risk that the renewable energy available to us will be insufficient to cover the required climate transition that we need to make. This energy is urgently required for the development of fossil-free steel, large-scale battery manufacturing and the electrification of our transport sector. Based on estimates from Cambridge University, it is cu…

Nuclear is clean and sustainable and can allow people to mine bitcoin and even heat their homes, which seems to be a problem currently in some regions of Europe.

Nuclear energy may not release CO2 into the atmosphere, but that doesn't make it clean and sustainable:

- you need to store radioactive waste for hundreds of years

- "safe" permanent storage sites often end up not not being actually safe 50 years later

- warming rivers by using the water for cooling may wreck local ecosystems

The only thing that is actually sustainable is not using all the energy in the first place. Bitcoin is the opposite of that.

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