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Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

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Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#31
post #5

Meta wants to capture your biometric data so that your facial expressions and body language can be mapped onto a 3D avatar in virtual reality. Is this really the future of the metaverse? or is it just what Mark Zuckerberg thinks what the metaverse should look like? I am a little skeptical of this vision. And I imagine most of the "metaverse" will be experienced through flat screens - and text, voice, and video will r…

> If you really want to convey facial expressions and a personable experience, just enable video. I hate to take Meta's side, but enabling video is inviting discrimination and hate speech. Enabling audio alone has proven to be enough to bring out the worst in people online. Voice mixers and avatars will result in a much more even experience for everyone involved. Emoting through an avatar will make that experience ri…

> I hate to take Meta's side, but enabling video is inviting discrimination and hate speech. Enabling audio alone has proven to be enough to bring out the worst in people online.

Virtual avatars already work in video conferencing apps, and any voice modulation software will work there as well. They're even easier to use, because tracking facial expressions and mapping them to a virtual avatar can happen with just a webcam, you don't need a complicated extra set of hardware.

I really just don't believe that privacy/anonymity/anti-discrimination is the reason Facebook is making any decision with VR. And I would base that on mostly just on the entire history of the company.

This is the company that has pushed harder than any other mainstream social network to force people online to use their real names. They've repeatedly had micro-targeting bugs in their ad-system that allowed targeting people based on race, and there have been multiple instances of people having parts of their identity leaked to friends and family members through advertising. The whole facial recognition thing they're planning to get rid of was a system that would tag your real face and correlate it with your real identity online, outside of your control via other people's accounts. I know people online who's literal first experience with Facebook was as soon as they signed up immediately getting doxed/outed by automated systems that sent suggested friend requests from their alt accounts to other contacts based on their address book. This is not a system or a company that in any way cares about digital autonomy, anonymity, or user-controlled identity, it really never has, and I don't believe Mark when he suddenly starts claiming that the company has now suddenly done a 180 on user autonomy.

I'm not anti-VR; I don't think it has the workplace value that Facebook is claiming, but it does have some benefits. And there is some potential for self-expression in VR that is genuinely exciting (see platforms like VR-Chat, but notably, Facebook is doing nothing in that space). But VR is definitely not a technology that's designed to decrease the risk of abuse. When you strap a VR headset on, you're putting yourself in a vulnerable situation, and Facebook has no controls I can see that try and mitigate the fundamental problem; they don't have tons of control over avatars, they don't have voice masks.

If they're claiming lack of video passthrough for faces is a privacy feature, that's an excuse, I don't believe it for a single second. None of the rest of their setup reflects a company that honestly cares about any of that stuff. You bring up audio as being a problem on its own -- Facebook isn't helping that problem; it's moving away from text communication, and then not enabling audio filters by default in VR. It's making that problem just straightforwardly worse.

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#33
post #19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably is an unethical technology. Its primary feature is to strongly tie someone's identity to their physical body. This alone is not inherently unethical, but it opens the door for so many abuses that it is hard to consider it as ethical. These abuses come from the ability to use a centrally-controlled technology to systematically isolate and excommunicate people from society, no matter where they go. It becom…

You could use that argument against DNA matching too. Sure, it helps with crime but it also allows someone to be tied to their physical body.

This analogy is somewhat valid, since facial and DNA data are mostly "public," given how often we show our face or incidentally shed some DNA (IIRC the police collected the golden state killer's DNA from a cup at a restaurant).

But it also relies on a shallow comparison – unlike a facial scan, DNA is not a passively collectible identifier. Collecting and processing DNA requires active, physical surveillance that downloading and faceprinting a photograph does not.

This physical limitation eliminates most practical risk of a global adversary exploiting DNA matching to build a dragnet surveillance regime. Meanwhile, facial recognition has already wrought such a state of affairs.

Incidentally, passive DNA surveillance does happen, but only in aggregate, like when sampling wastewater for toxins or other biomarkers. I'm not aware of any technology that separates the distinct DNA of individuals from mixed wastewater. If that were possible, then maybe DNA dragnet surveillance would be, too.

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#34

I've seen a genius use of face analysis lately: nvidia new video codec for chat. https://developer.nvidia.com/ai-video-compression Basically it creates an AI model of your face, send that to the other party, and then when you move, it only sends key face points. The other party uses the AI model to create a virtual hi-res picture of you, thispersondoesnotexist style, except it looks perfectly like you. Then it uses t…

Other advantages of the NVIDIA system is that it can "fix" things about your face in the reconstruction. It can synthesize eye contact, cover for you when you're looking at your phone, synthesize a little smirk at a bad joke even if you just rolled your eyes.

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#35
"A calm technology will move easily from the periphery of our attention, to the center, and back."

It seems a big assumption that a technology occupying "the periphery of our attention" is calm. A lot of apps/sites are starting to do this 'dot where you have something you need to process', and although they are less obnoxious than notifications and popups, they are still a third party deciding that I need to do something, and worse, they hang around with their 'you have left something undone' vibe until you click on them. This is not calming.

Frankly I think 'use as little of my attention as possible' should be the major principle, not 'be polite in how you dispose of my attention'

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#36

I've seen a genius use of face analysis lately: nvidia new video codec for chat. https://developer.nvidia.com/ai-video-compression Basically it creates an AI model of your face, send that to the other party, and then when you move, it only sends key face points. The other party uses the AI model to create a virtual hi-res picture of you, thispersondoesnotexist style, except it looks perfectly like you. Then it uses t…

The latest iPhones came with a LIDAR feature installed. Literally people paying for technology that can scan a room and report back to (who knows) anyone that has access to the device's telemetry. In the future, apps like TikTok, FaceBook, Meta and whatever can simply access the scanner, or the data storage from the device and have access to a wealth of information on any user they want.

Facial recognition is just the surface of a festering violation of individual user privacy. Once these companies manage to capture data, it has value for years into the future even if it is shut down at any point later.

Indeed, our privacy rights have already been violated and owned... Privacy should be protected by law at the source of data collection -- THE DEVICE LEVEL -- not just at the app level. Phones, Cameras, ATMs, Cars, etc... The devices and apps that we pay for and use (respectively), should not enable data collection that can be used against us in any way for extortion or manipulation, especially in incriminating circumstances. Current law provides for protections about this to an extent, but courts are still not educated and active enough, and the laws are fairly weak in specificity to properly enforce those standards.

I obey the law, but even the simplest data gathered by companies on us can become a means of manipulation or extortion that companies can use over time against us covertly. Think about private/personal data use in determining bank loans, job opportunities, court cases, and in health insurance. Possibly the biggest crime is that we're eagerly lining up to pay for the devices and sign up for apps that aid the corruption at higher costs overall than ever.

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#37

I've seen a genius use of face analysis lately: nvidia new video codec for chat. https://developer.nvidia.com/ai-video-compression Basically it creates an AI model of your face, send that to the other party, and then when you move, it only sends key face points. The other party uses the AI model to create a virtual hi-res picture of you, thispersondoesnotexist style, except it looks perfectly like you. Then it uses t…

Other advantages of the NVIDIA system is that it can "fix" things about your face in the reconstruction. It can synthesize eye contact, cover for you when you're looking at your phone, synthesize a little smirk at a bad joke even if you just rolled your eyes.

Since iOS 14 FaceTime can make you look like you are looking at the camera instead of the screen below it.

Settings -> FaceTime -> Eye Contact

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#38
post #7
post #3

Facebook: we're moving away from this ethically and morally reprehensible technology under their breath because the IP is better held in a different part of our corporate structure.

Facial recognition is ethically and morally reprehensible technology?

To me, philosophically, A tool by itself isn't inherently good or bad, but the way in which it is applied is. Unfortunately, people couldn't resist the temptation to do evil that large-scale, (relatively) rapid, programmatic identification (faulty or otherwise) of humans enables.

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#39

I've seen a genius use of face analysis lately: nvidia new video codec for chat. https://developer.nvidia.com/ai-video-compression Basically it creates an AI model of your face, send that to the other party, and then when you move, it only sends key face points. The other party uses the AI model to create a virtual hi-res picture of you, thispersondoesnotexist style, except it looks perfectly like you. Then it uses t…

Other advantages of the NVIDIA system is that it can "fix" things about your face in the reconstruction. It can synthesize eye contact, cover for you when you're looking at your phone, synthesize a little smirk at a bad joke even if you just rolled your eyes.

It's also going to normalized it.

Removing imperfections will become the norm, the way photoshoping magazing covers is, with all the social consequences.

In fact, people will confuse what the machine think we look like, with what we actually look like, and I'm bracing for the bias that it will create.

Re: Facebook is backing away from facial recognition. Meta isn’t

#40

I've seen a genius use of face analysis lately: nvidia new video codec for chat. https://developer.nvidia.com/ai-video-compression Basically it creates an AI model of your face, send that to the other party, and then when you move, it only sends key face points. The other party uses the AI model to create a virtual hi-res picture of you, thispersondoesnotexist style, except it looks perfectly like you. Then it uses t…

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