Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85% • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#371

Post by grey413 » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #333

> [...] patients who received Paxlovid within five days of symptom onset [...] I wonder how well it will do on people who are farther along in their COVID infection? There are a lot of people who don't get vaccinated, don't take precautions to avoid COVID, dismiss their early symptoms either because they believe COVID isn't worse than a typical cold or flu or because they think that is probably what they have, just t…

My understanding is that other antivirals are much less effective after the first week or so of infection.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#372

Post by HWR_14 » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

pezzana wrote: post #349

> Pfizer’s phase 2/3 trial randomized non-hospitalized adult COVID-19 patients who were at high risk of progressing to severe illness to receive placebo or Paxlovid, a combination of the protease inhibitors PF-07321332 and ritonavir. The efficacy analysis is based on 1,219 patients. One noteworthy feature is the newness of this drug: > PF-07321332 was developed from scratch during the current pandemic. It’s a reversi…

>Less than two years from lab to clinic is highly unusual.

I assume like most other COVID vaccines/treatments, the timeline is shrunk by going straight to more expensive phases of the trial instead of having preliminary ones of escalating cost and confidence. Or at least prepping for them.

For instance, all the vaccines started setting up commercial production around the same time they started trials, because it's not worth the months delay of setting up a production line to determine if it worked first.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#373

Post by vidoc » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

darthvoldemort wrote: post #314

cglace wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that every new molecule should be treated as if it were a prion?

I'm suggesting that sometimes a very small amount of a substance can cause catastrophic effects a decade later. That's why we do testing before we release drugs. And Pfizer isn't the hero here, they never have been. https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ This list doesn't even include Celebrex. 1986: Pfizer had to withdraw an artificial heart valve from the market after defects led to it being im…

Watch out, it's becoming increasingly illegal to talk about Pfizer even just in a slightly negative way. Their covid-19 vaccine product is the gold standard of safety, it's spectacularly effective, and breakthrough cases are so extremely rare it's basically fake news to claim otherwise. If it's not fake news, it's perhaps just anti-vax, white-supremacy, or russia.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#374

Post by IronWolve » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

throwawaymedia wrote: post #337

Before everyone becomes super excited, I want you all to read this article from Nov 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 Read it carefully. Pfizer falsifies clinical data and covers up significant adverse effects. FDA knows about all of that and covers their asses. Whatever comes from Pfizer will be authorized without any questions being asked. It's not even a legislation, but a straight up internal arrangeme…

Related, FDA's War on Dr. Burzynski, after Burzynski won his court cases, the FDA gave away Burzynski patents to their FDA pharma buddies. The FDA stole it after they couldn't win lawsuits against Burzynski in multiple court cases.

Found a recap via google @ https://www.jpands.org/hacienda/blevins1.html

Burzynski: Cancer Is Serious Business @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7LZ8GLerI

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#375

Post by nradov » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

AndrewThrowaway wrote: post #197

dontcare007 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's just it, there's less than a 2% chance of dying even if you get COVID.

That's the problem - "even if you get COVID". At the start of pandemic we could have hoped that it will pass in half a year, in a year or so. Now we know that it is probably here to stay. So eventually you will get COVID. Depending on how long has passed after your vaccine, what variation of virus you will get, how old you are and etc will depend if it is more like 5% or 1% or so. In my office I have 200 or so collea…

A death rate of 4-5 per 200 workers is highly unlikely. According to CDC data the infection fatality rate in a mostly unvaccinated population was 0.06% for the 18-49 age group and 0.6% for the 50-64 age group. The majority of deaths have been among older age groups, who are mostly not working at companies.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

Fortunately vaccination provides good protection against death.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#376

Post by mostertoaster » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #359

mostertoaster wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I think it will be gladly accepted by unvaccinated folk. The reason being is most unvaccinated people don’t believe it isn’t effective, they don’t like being forced to protect themselves by a bunch of moral busybodies. I just accepted as soon as we saw that covid was spreading so quickly, welp I’m gonna get that. I figured I wouldn’t be that affected by it and wasn’t. Our parents said, well if I get it I get it, a…

Nice story. Meanwhile at least 5 million are dead - 750,000 in the US alone. How does your story help their families?

I don’t think it helps their families. You know what does though, vaccines and this new anti-viral.

So can I live my life and worry about own family and not someone’s I don’t know?

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#377

Post by mataug » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

throwawaymedia wrote: post #337

Before everyone becomes super excited, I want you all to read this article from Nov 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 Read it carefully. Pfizer falsifies clinical data and covers up significant adverse effects. FDA knows about all of that and covers their asses. Whatever comes from Pfizer will be authorized without any questions being asked. It's not even a legislation, but a straight up internal arrangeme…

I understand this concern, but what can I as an average citizen do about this ?

- Should we choose the moderna vaccine instead ?

- Should we avoid the oral vaccine, and opt for the injection instead ?

- Should we merely be skeptical and wait ?

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#378

Post by bena » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

darthvoldemort wrote: post #314

cglace wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that every new molecule should be treated as if it were a prion?

I'm suggesting that sometimes a very small amount of a substance can cause catastrophic effects a decade later. That's why we do testing before we release drugs. And Pfizer isn't the hero here, they never have been. https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ This list doesn't even include Celebrex. 1986: Pfizer had to withdraw an artificial heart valve from the market after defects led to it being im…

So 6 out of how many other studies and drugs they've released without scandal?

If we're applying the COVID standard to Pfizer, would their failure rate be greater than or less than COVID's death rate?

If we use the 2% number I've seen around here for COVID's death rate, that means if Pfizer has over 300 drugs, these six scandals are a non-issue because they happen so rarely.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#379

Post by gfodor » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

spazrunaway wrote: post #297

lettergram wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a straw man argument, when you take this drug you already have 100% covid19. Presumably that means you’ll have that risk, plus additional unknown risk. Perhaps the drug works like advertised, but we’ve seen better and more successful studies for things like ivermectin and anti-body treatments. Which have a known risk profile. It’s the same for the vaccine. You still have the risk of what ever the vaccine risk…

Data shows that being vaccinated divides your odds of dying and being hospitalized from covid by about 10. There's no evidence I'm aware of showing that the vaccines create additional risk anywhere close to outweighing that benefit.

There is. Because kids (basically) don’t die from COVID. The side effect risk, while small, is material in a risk calculation for them, since their entire risk from the disease is small. At a minimum, mandating it for kids (as is openly stated to be the plan in CA) is unethical.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#380

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

Filligree wrote: post #321

jayknight wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good article. I'm firmly on team do-what-it-takes-to-stop-the-spread, but no one has an exit strategy. I got a booster and we have appointments for two of our three kids to get there first shot. By mid-December I'm hoping to not have to think much about it anymore. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/11/what-amer...

There are two possible exit strategies. - Vaccinate everyone who can be vaccinated, at gunpoint. - Allow everyone who is vulnerable to die, at which point the death rates will drop. Choose. Which one do you want?

[deleted]