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The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

clivethompson.medium.com

341–350 of 377 posts

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a recent interview from mark zuck about the metaverse and someone asked him a similar question. He had an actually really insightful answer. 1) Most american adults watch several hours of TV per day. alternatively, many play a few hours of video games. (The actual per-person-per-day numbers are very high compared to the average 2hr/week i watch tv but whatever). Most of TV and Video Games are about ignoring re…

Sure, that's also what sport coaches, musician teachers, people teaching cooking on youtube and librarians say. Also you should get 8 hours of sleep, buy food at the farmers market, spend time with your familly, meditate, get this GTD rolling, and learn a new skill for your carreer. But honestly, the truth is, as soon as VR is cheap and comfy, I think people will rush to it anyway for one reason: porn. So the metaver…

You haven't lived until a dragon apologizes for stepping on you at a furry night club.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#342
post #6
post #4

I was wondering recently if it might be possible with today's GPU hardware to create a Minecraft-like world with similar dynamics but with fully simulated physics across the entire world. In Minecraft terms this would be a global simulation "tick" that allowed things like gravity to work, more sophisticated creature behaviors to play out globally, etc.

The neosvr team is doing just that with the open source bepu physics engine :D

Interesting, but I was thinking of something simpler than a full on physics engine. Simulate a whole Minecraft-style voxel world like a big 3D cellular automaton with N states where N is the number of block types. Algorithms similar to HashLife may help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashlife

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're proving his point beautifully. You've been online since the mid-90s, so you're ~40 or older? I don't mean to be derogatory, but you sound exactly like an "oldie" who is out of touch as described by the GP. Zoomers are absolutely spending more time online and less time IRL than previous generations. I'm only 23 and the difference between my childhood and my younger siblings is massive. They generally pr…

Don't worry you can be an oldie too if your childhood is massively different to your siblings! You're looking at your younger siblings and I'm looking at my kids. We see different things and honestly I think this is a bit of a moral panic like we saw with rock and roll, comics, TV, video games during my youth, kids playing online games when I was your age and so on.

> I think this is a bit of a moral panic

I really hope that's true. How do you reconcile that with, for example, teenage psychological problems and suicides linked to social media usage?

Video games of the past were quite different from today. I feel like the closure of the tight feedback loop, and the sensorial immersiveness are just a fundamental step change.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#344
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your arguments support stating that taking an object from one simulation to another is a conceptually hard , not necessarily impossible. We do not have that compatibility now, but IMHO the word "metaverse" becomes applicable only when (and if) when it includes at least partial compatibility of this sort; that is the difference between separate environments and environments in a shared metaverse.

At first I thought of replying with something like > "Yes, everything is possible with enough engineering time. My point is that you can easily do horizontal integration (lots of simulations, mostly cosmetic, almost no behavior) or vertical integration (lots of behavior, few simulation). Both of those have a small surface. But if you want the two at the same time, your surface begins to grow rapidly. You have to impl…

My argument probably is that establishing some base rules that all simulations follow and some interchange standards is the key part of the metaverse concept. If you don't have that, then you have x separate unconnected "universes", but you can talk about a metaverse only if you have linked them in some ways.

You go in a lot of detail about the "Staff of Westfall" topic which rises some very hard problems, but not all of them need to be solved for a "minimum viable metaverse" (and perhaps not all of them should be solved - likely the optimal spot is somewhere in the middle between those two opposing wishes) - however, there's nothing metaverse-like until we do at least the basics of such connections e.g. ability to link and/or transfers of users, names/identities/aliases and at least some aspects of avatars; and in the case if two simulations are sufficiently similar and want to interoperate, then developing common standards to enable that avatar/item transfer.

Like, it's okay for a particular simulation to have a rule "custom hats are okay, but magic staffs have to stay outside" - but then it needs a protocol that allows them to separate different "accessories" of incoming avatars. And it's okay for a particular simulation (e.g. a virtual conference setup) to have a rule "magic staffs are only decorative items here", but then it needs a technical process to obtain the visual aspects of that staff so that it can properly display it with the new avatar - the simulation might be very different (VR, different styles of 3d vs 2d environment vs perhaps textual representation), so such standards are nontrivial but necessary to have a connected metaverse. (If we want to have it. Myself, I'm not so sure, but some people definitely do)

And if a simulation wants to allow the items inside but have a transformation to fit their specific mechanics - or even transform meaningful items to fit their theme (e.g. a space opera rpg representing the "Staff of Westfall" as a lightsaber) then there should be a standard for that "receiving simulation" to obtain the relevant attributes of that staff so that it can make that transformation, then they should not have to implement a different technical integration for every other simulation, that should be part of the metaverse standards.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#345
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your arguments support stating that taking an object from one simulation to another is a conceptually hard , not necessarily impossible. We do not have that compatibility now, but IMHO the word "metaverse" becomes applicable only when (and if) when it includes at least partial compatibility of this sort; that is the difference between separate environments and environments in a shared metaverse.

At first I thought of replying with something like > "Yes, everything is possible with enough engineering time. My point is that you can easily do horizontal integration (lots of simulations, mostly cosmetic, almost no behavior) or vertical integration (lots of behavior, few simulation). Both of those have a small surface. But if you want the two at the same time, your surface begins to grow rapidly. You have to impl…

> what would the Staff of Westfall be in a virtual coworking space? Could you beat up people with it?

You’re still limiting the question to the plane of content: the object’s physical (virtual) characteristics.

Consider the staff as it exists in the plane of expression: what is the person expressing by displaying the item? It would express that you play WoW, are an Alliance player, and play a caster of some sort. That might be a valuable ice breaker or conversation starter; a thing that helps people identify a shared experience or facet of their shared identity.

You have to see through the object’s simulated characteristics and into what the object’s existence means for it to have value. If the object doesn’t mean anything, then there’s not much point in moving it from space to space.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#347
People have too much of dopamine rush from the ordinary social media to get engaged in such complex projects. Second Life was an expection created in times where there was no social media and people were looking for alternative ways to pass time and were willing to invest their time in learning how to use Second Life (it is a quite complex creation tool and game client at the same time).

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry you can be an oldie too if your childhood is massively different to your siblings! You're looking at your younger siblings and I'm looking at my kids. We see different things and honestly I think this is a bit of a moral panic like we saw with rock and roll, comics, TV, video games during my youth, kids playing online games when I was your age and so on.

> I think this is a bit of a moral panic I really hope that's true. How do you reconcile that with, for example, teenage psychological problems and suicides linked to social media usage? Video games of the past were quite different from today. I feel like the closure of the tight feedback loop, and the sensorial immersiveness are just a fundamental step change.

Being concerned about specific things where there is actual evidence is absolutely fine.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#349
post #347

People have too much of dopamine rush from the ordinary social media to get engaged in such complex projects. Second Life was an expection created in times where there was no social media and people were looking for alternative ways to pass time and were willing to invest their time in learning how to use Second Life (it is a quite complex creation tool and game client at the same time).

What Second Life is missing is the decentralization and newer graphic/scripting engine. Creator of Second Life already tried to create VR metaverse with those issues solved and it didn't catch on.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#350
post #329

> Mojang thus far hasn’t built microtransactions He must have a different Minecraft. Minecraft on xbox has a shop for skins and plugins and all kind of stuff right on the very first menu you see. It even has some kind of daily deal. It has its own funny money currency system. (Google "minecoins")

> He must have a different Minecraft. Minecraft on xbox [...] Given how much he talks about custom servers and mods, yes he has a different Minecraft: he's talking about the Java edition, not the Bedrock edition which is the one which runs on the Xbox.

And yet Mojang did build it.
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