Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

clivethompson.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 377 posts

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#321

Post by PeterisP »

Zababa wrote: post #95
zemo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taking an object from one simulation to another and having different simulations are oposites not really, we just have to get into some semiotics here and consider the difference between the signifier and the signified ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signified_and_signifier ). In semiotics, a signifier is a physical artifact; the manifestation of something. A physical stop sign, for example. The signified is the co…

> Now, can the Staff of Westfall be transferred to another simulation? Yes and no. The signifier, the physical (virtual?) staff can be transferred to another game in some sense. The 3D model can be transferred, the physical appearance of the item can be transferred. But that was always on your computer all along; it's not particularly meaningful. The effects of the item may or may not be transferable; if a game is no…

Your arguments support stating that taking an object from one simulation to another is a conceptually hard, not necessarily impossible. We do not have that compatibility now, but IMHO the word "metaverse" becomes applicable only when (and if) when it includes at least partial compatibility of this sort; that is the difference between separate environments and environments in a shared metaverse.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#322

Post by PeterisP »

4ggr0 wrote: post #296
VikingCoder wrote: post #124

I want a single contiguous Minecraft world that everyone can use. Each account could get a range of blocks allocated to them, after Credit Card validation, to prove you're a real person. You could pay to own some more blocks. The blocks you get are just a land grab. You can trade blocks you own for blocks someone else owns, and there could be a monetary transaction to go with it. You can build what you want to on you…

> You could pay to own some more blocks. Let's bring wealth-gaps to the metaverse, what could go wrong ;)

It's not like wealth-gaps will be left outside of any realistic metaverse (especially one made by FB, but not only that). If people treat it seriously, then it becomes linked with all the real world factors, and wealth is obviously one of those.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#323

Post by nels »

clpm4j wrote: post #18

(Aware of the fact that I'm taking time out of my day to read HN) I really wonder how many adults > 25yrs and < 60yrs have the time to immerse themselves in any type of digital world / metaverse experience. If I was a teenager or in college, then yeah I can see it... but there are so many things to do in the 16hrs we have each day, and I already kick myself for not finishing that book, or getting an extra workout in,…

The concept of the metaverse also involves doing those activities (e.g., work, fitness, entertainment) inside the metaverse. For instance, the home workout videos that people watch on their TVs these days could someday be replaced by an immersive fitness experience on AR glasses.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#324

Post by moffkalast »

itronitron wrote: post #285
clpm4j wrote: post #18

(Aware of the fact that I'm taking time out of my day to read HN) I really wonder how many adults > 25yrs and < 60yrs have the time to immerse themselves in any type of digital world / metaverse experience. If I was a teenager or in college, then yeah I can see it... but there are so many things to do in the 16hrs we have each day, and I already kick myself for not finishing that book, or getting an extra workout in,…

Maybe thinking of it as a separate experience is limiting how people make use of it. I wonder if anyone has run remote team meetings or virtual classrooms in Minecraft as I imagine it would be a lot less fatiguing than Zoom style teleconferencing. The fact that in MC you can easily see where other players are looking adds a lot to the experience.

I think that's partially how the education edition is supposed to be used, but I've never actually seen it happen.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#325

Post by cesarb »

nradov wrote: post #145
kibwen wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm frustrated that everywhere I look I keep seeing "metaverse" and "VR" used interchangeably. All of the things described above are VR, and none of them are the metaverse. Watching TV or playing a game in an immersive, distraction-free VR environment sounds great, and will happen, and it's not the metaverse, it's just VR. Working in a virtual home office has the potential to be extremely productive, ergonomic, and s…

I see a lot of assumptions about office worker productivity with zero real world evidence. A lot of home office workers never learned to touch type. How the heck are they supposed to do office work if they can't see their fingers on the keyboard? Voice recognition is no solution, it still sucks for text entry and is completely useless for anything like slide presentations or spreadsheets. There is legitimate potentia…

> How the heck are they supposed to do office work if they can't see their fingers on the keyboard?

I have seen a video, IIRC it was from SimulaVR, in which the user had a virtual window which showed a camera view facing the real-world keyboard. So this is easy to solve: these people who need to see their fingers on the keyboard (and probably everyone else when doing a real-world action like getting a cup with a drink) would open a window with an external camera view.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#326

Post by VLM »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #156
vineyardmike wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a recent interview from mark zuck about the metaverse and someone asked him a similar question. He had an actually really insightful answer. 1) Most american adults watch several hours of TV per day. alternatively, many play a few hours of video games. (The actual per-person-per-day numbers are very high compared to the average 2hr/week i watch tv but whatever). Most of TV and Video Games are about ignoring re…

Sure, that's also what sport coaches, musician teachers, people teaching cooking on youtube and librarians say. Also you should get 8 hours of sleep, buy food at the farmers market, spend time with your familly, meditate, get this GTD rolling, and learn a new skill for your carreer. But honestly, the truth is, as soon as VR is cheap and comfy, I think people will rush to it anyway for one reason: porn. So the metaver…

Second Life was big into online gambling.

There was a side dish of turn of the century real estate hucksterism. Buy because everyone else is buying. Buy high sell low as retail always does LOL.

And pr0n as you mention.

Also 3d modelers and CAD folks built elaborate structures that were always empty but impressive to admire. The supply of skilled draftsmen and architects willing to work for free VASTLY exceeds the demand.

The most interesting meta activity on second life was stuff that doesn't require second life or 3d or any of that, it was just a fancy screen saver behind people doing simple IRC texting, etc. The philosophy club meetup sounded fun but it was basically walk to a virtual campfire then watch people too high to think, try to instant message philosophical stuff to sound wittier than the next guy. Like karma farming with people too high to succeed but its OK because the platform doesn't have karma LOL. Didn't go many of those LOL.

Second life had a weird attitude toward real life where it was not allowed to use your real name. To prevent "funny names" they gave a huge list of first and last names and let you pick. I found Turbo Pascal and thought it witty because I used that once rather expensive ($250 for a pascal compiler used to be a bargain compared to what D.E.C. charged...) software package 20 yrs previously (now more like 40 yrs) and unfortunately the only reactions I got were confusion and "hey did you know your name is an actual program my dad used?" so it wasn't so fun. I'd rather have used my name.

But that was it, those five things and the rest was empty. I was there, that's how I remember it.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#327

Post by randomsearch »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #310
meheleventyone wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not either or. These are complementary things. I’ve been extremely online since the mid-90s for example. There’s nothing sinister or world changing here. Online isn’t a separate universe it’s just a part of IRL.

I think you're proving his point beautifully. You've been online since the mid-90s, so you're ~40 or older? I don't mean to be derogatory, but you sound exactly like an "oldie" who is out of touch as described by the GP. Zoomers are absolutely spending more time online and less time IRL than previous generations. I'm only 23 and the difference between my childhood and my younger siblings is massive. They generally pr…

Exactly right, and thank you for “Zoomers” as a better label.

General rule here I think is that if you don’t think there’s a tectonic shift then you need to go talk to the Zoomers.

Who knows how this turns out but I’m pretty sure it’s not something I’m going to feel comfortable with. There are so many implications: how will different facets of being human translate online? How will this affect our health? And perhaps most critically, in an online world there can be an ultimate power in a way impossible IRL

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#328

Post by randomsearch »

tim333 wrote: post #300
randomsearch wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s a very good analogy, not least because our incremental steps to self driving cars and similar to our incremental steps towards immersion - we already have some components (parking assist, social media) but there’s still a large gap.

Though there's no problem understanding what a self driving car should be - like an Uber but with no human driver in. The metaverse on the other hand - no one really knows.

Good point! Metaphors fail so easily.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#329

Post by cesarb »

recursive wrote: post #146

> Mojang thus far hasn’t built microtransactions He must have a different Minecraft. Minecraft on xbox has a shop for skins and plugins and all kind of stuff right on the very first menu you see. It even has some kind of daily deal. It has its own funny money currency system. (Google "minecoins")

> He must have a different Minecraft. Minecraft on xbox [...]

Given how much he talks about custom servers and mods, yes he has a different Minecraft: he's talking about the Java edition, not the Bedrock edition which is the one which runs on the Xbox.

Re: The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft

#330

Post by VLM »

The problem with businessmen trying to make a metaverse is its got uncreative people trying to make tools for creative people, and trying to engineer unscalable and impractical cargo cult solutions.

The uncreative part is best seen in how businessmen think you should buy books online by simply emulating, 3d game style, the experience of going to a shopping mall in 1980 and walking the aisles and waiting in line at Waldenbooks. The actual way books are sold online is instead of a very user unfriendly POS terminal based on a 5150 terminal connected to an AS/400, its a pretty and easy to use UI web based point of sale terminal. Essentially Amazon tricked us into doing free labor for them, being our own cashier/salespeople. Gotta admit that's more creative than "put the mall in GTA3 (Edited: more like GTA Vice City, and that was an awesome game LOL) as a map and pretend to visit the mall in 1980" like the businessmen thought online shopping would resemble.

The cargo cult is the businessmen never think thru how to scale and make things work. The main reason it took until 1900 for heavier than air flight was too many of 'those guys' in charge trying to make airplanes by emulating birds. Just make a 747 by packing ground beef around glued together chicken bones and I'm sure it'll eventually fly real well, says the businessmen. Obviously one makes railroad engines by building steam powered fully articulated four legged mining donkeys. Obviously teen socializing using technology will be putting a "Mall Rats" movie map as a level in Doom. (edited: Jetson era portrayal of robot factories, lol.)

Meanwhile I lived thru the 90s 00s where the legacy media, which is finally near dead, decided everything internet and VR was actually bad special effects as an analogy for a LSD trip. Why bother with actually "doing VR" if you could replace all the hardware in a video game console with a acid tab dispenser. I mean, they're not wrong in a sense, but only Hollywood people would have expected/demanded that everyone wants to be high all the time.

Post reply on HN