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Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

brown.edu

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Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#321

Post by oneepic »

odyssey7 wrote: post #43
silisili wrote: post #9

This gives me hope. I'm not even half his age, but already worry about my brain going. When I was 17 I could do basic calculus in my head. Today I struggle to carry numbers in long addition problems. It already has me thinking about my career and future - it certainly is downhill from here. Then something like this happens and just makes me feel like a big baby. Hats off Mr Steiner.

Don’t assume this is age. It could be a health condition beginning to manifest. Inflammation, vitamin deficiency leading to something bad, etc. Brain fog is a common symptom of many possible issues that may just be taking root. I would see a doctor and make sure I fixed any such issue I could.

"could be." It could also be _completely normal_ losing one's ability over time by not practicing, and one could get it back by just... doing more practice.

I'm in my mid-20's and I can't do mental math as well as I used to. Why? I don't spend as much time on it now, as I did when I was in school some years ago.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#322

Post by blip54321 »

garmaine wrote: post #167
blip54321 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New continent: - Full time commitment seems critical to the process. A Ph.D is a time of intellectual exploration, and you can't really do that fighting work and family deadlines. - On the other hand, time can be squished for older people by virtue of industry experience making them more efficient - I'd be hesitant about remote, since so much of a Ph.D is learning from others. Hallway conversations are critical. That…

> Full time commitment seems critical to the process. A Ph.D is a time of intellectual exploration, and you can't really do that fighting work and family deadlines. This is BS. In every other field great strides have been made by individuals who balance a multitude of life requirements. Being able to devote every waking hour to something only results in burnout. And, I suppose, graduate students slave labor, which is…

Straw man.

There's a gap a mile wide between Ph.D+family+work (which I described as a bad idea) and "Being able to devote every waking hour"

The whole point of graduate school is to have time for intellectual exploration -- reading papers, talking to students, traveling, taking interesting classes, and so on. Grad school was a wonderful time for me, but I can't imagine doing the same while having a deadline to ship a system next week at work or whatnot.

* Family+grad school is definitely okay, if you're independently wealthy or your spouse has a decent income.

* Grad school+work might be okay if the two align, and your thesis touches on your work. But other than that, I wouldn't recommend it.

* Grad school+work+family? That's a waste of your time. You'll get a slip of paper at the end,

But yes, grad student slave labor mentality is a problem, and if you're grad student slave labor, you are wasting your time too, and working for a fraction of your market value where all you get at the end is a paper.

A thesis advisor is an _advisor_, not a boss. I professors job is to _profess_, not to control. And grad school is _school_, which happens to give a stipend, not a job. If you're not using the time for intellectual explorations, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#323

Post by blip54321 »

SantalBlush wrote: post #220
garmaine wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full time commitment seems critical to the process. A Ph.D is a time of intellectual exploration, and you can't really do that fighting work and family deadlines. This is BS. In every other field great strides have been made by individuals who balance a multitude of life requirements. Being able to devote every waking hour to something only results in burnout. And, I suppose, graduate students slave labor, which is…

Academia in the US has become a pyramid scheme where faculty lures bright, young, hard working students into doing their chores for poverty wages. It's not the faculty's fault, either; they're often overworked as well. I don't know how anyone produces meaningful research in that environment anymore. It's untenable.

> I don't know how anyone produces meaningful research in that environment anymore. It's untenable.

By ignoring the system.

One of the biggest problems in academia is that students don't know their rights, and professors set the culture. It's a power problem. If students assert their rights -- and they have plenty of them -- they usually do okay. It's neigh impossible to fire a grad student for not doing slave labor, and it looks really, really bad for the professor.

Professors can advise students, but they have very little real power to control them, once students are in the program. The power dynamic comes mostly from a mutual belief in that power existing.

Do good research. Take interesting classes. Have fun. Explore. If your professor tells you to do menial labor, politely blow them off.

That's the deal 5-10x pay cut in return for that freedom. Make sure you get your part of the bargain.

Students need to pass their quals, and produce a good thesis.

That's it. Once you realize that, grad school gets a lot better.

And have a BATNA.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#324

Post by unobatbayar »

tombert wrote: post #68
unobatbayar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm 30 right now, > You definitely aren’t too old > By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. In my opinion, the replier was referring to your chronological age.

Sure but this is a distinction without a difference in this case. My choice of the word “old” wasn’t very good, as explained in the following sentence.

I see, sorry I didn't mean to be rude.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#325

Post by Apofis »

dm319 wrote: post #241
conjectures wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in most EU you can do your PhD while working. You really can't at good universities in the UK. At Cambridge we had to get special permission to live more than 10 miles from Great St Mary's. My advisor's advice was that it was near impossible to finish up while working. Had enough of Americans telling me about their excruciatingly long PhD programmes when half of that time is spent teaching and doing exams which we'…

Yes, I have recently completed a PhD at a UK university (aged late 30s). I was able to get full funding for my salary and lab resources for 3 years. I worked so hard and submitted after 4 years. Can't imagine how I could have done those three years while working - it was a very much full-time occupation, if not more.

The funding that you were granted covered your full traditional salary and not a shoe-string budget? I really want to do graduate studies full time but I'm struggling to figure it out financially.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#326

Post by the_only_law »

javchz wrote: post #281
the_only_law wrote: post #242

I don’t even have a bachelors. I’ve been thinking about going back to school and pursing higher levels of education (research masters or PhD) twitch a mostly utilitarian fields and do industrial R&D work in a domain I’ve become interested in and my biggest worry is being “old” by the time I complete any graduate education (even though old in my case, would likely be mid-30s by the end if I start in the coming years).…

I had the same worries as someone who with some luck will graduate in his 30s. I went back to college after dropping out when I was in my early 20s. Someone told me "You're going to be X+4 years in 4 years anyway, why not try achieving that thing you want. Time will pass either way" Surprise: Right now I enjoy college VS before when it felt like a chore I had to go because was the "right thing to do". It's great to s…

It’s not about being old in school, in fact I’m fairly sure I could make much more of it now then had I gone at 17-18.

It’s about being old when I finish. Losing the rest of my youth being out of place (funny enough I’ve always been the young guy among older people and school would just invert that, it’s not the biggest issue in the world, but it does become very isolating at times) and losing years of earning power on what feels like a gamble. Being the oldest candidate applying for a new job, etc.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#327

Post by sipior »

bitwize wrote: post #319
sipior wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Europe for almost twenty years, with a spouse teaching in a European secondary school, and with the utmost respect to my European colleagues, please allow me to assure you that this is not even remotely the case.

Having grown up in the USA, gone through the "second high school" USA university system, and heard reports from personal acquaintances and sites like this one on what levels of math German and Russian students graduate with, I'm still gonna press X to doubt the truth of your assurance, as earnest and well-meaning as it may be.

Why don't you move to Europe, and find out for yourself? I thought much the same as you, twenty years ago. Grass looks greener, etc., etc.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#328

Post by whatsakandr »

tombert wrote: post #3

This is really cool. I'm 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it's really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn't help that a part of me does sort of feel "too old" to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven't entered the corporate world yet. Anyway, it's…

JHU has a "Doctrate of Engineering" program where you work full time. But you have to convince your employer to be able to work full time on a particular problem.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#329

Post by conjectures »

nickd2001 wrote: post #262
tombert wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few decent universities in the UK appear to be somewhat amenable to the idea of part-time distance learning for a PhD. I don't think University of York is considered a bad school by any measure, and it has a program for such things. https://www.york.ac.uk/distance-learning/courses/#computer-s...

I wonder if anyone knows the answer to this Q. Back in the day, UK universities, and in particular Open University, often let you take as long as you liked to finish a Phd. I knew someone who in the 1980s got a lecturer job at Cambridge Uni with only a Masters, and over a period of 16 yrs got a Phd part-time. But it seems this got clamped down, and now unis don't like to see anyone take longer than 6 yrs to complete…

> I quite fancy doing a Phd myself one day, but I assume I'd have to do it in "stealth mode" unofficially for a few yrs without a supervisor first

I'd suggest you think very carefully about this first. There's a very high chance the stealth mode work will be non-useful for getting onto a programme. Similar to how working on a 'build it and they will come' approach is generally disadvised for startups. Obviously it depends on how much of a lone genius you are but only you know that ;)

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#330

Post by miramardesign »

tombert wrote: post #3

This is really cool. I'm 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it's really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn't help that a part of me does sort of feel "too old" to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven't entered the corporate world yet. Anyway, it's…

im of the unpopular opinion that this is utterly stupid, the hard fact is our lives are time boxed and this guy is a waste of class room space and he will never put his skills to use since he'll die five minutes later.
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