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Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

brown.edu

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Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#261

Post by jrumbut »

snake42 wrote: post #258
tombert wrote: post #3

This is really cool. I'm 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it's really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn't help that a part of me does sort of feel "too old" to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven't entered the corporate world yet. Anyway, it's…

Where I work allows full-time employees to get their PHD and also gives some paid time to write your thesis. You can also propose research projects that align with your thesis topic. Edit: Also tuition is free. https://careers.gtri.gatech.edu/en-us/listing/

Wow I thought my employer (Massachusetts) had been generous just allowing it and paying for it, but time to write your thesis?

That's a great opportunity and I hope someone goes for it.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#262

Post by nickd2001 »

tombert wrote: post #235
conjectures wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in most EU you can do your PhD while working. You really can't at good universities in the UK. At Cambridge we had to get special permission to live more than 10 miles from Great St Mary's. My advisor's advice was that it was near impossible to finish up while working. Had enough of Americans telling me about their excruciatingly long PhD programmes when half of that time is spent teaching and doing exams which we'…

A few decent universities in the UK appear to be somewhat amenable to the idea of part-time distance learning for a PhD. I don't think University of York is considered a bad school by any measure, and it has a program for such things. https://www.york.ac.uk/distance-learning/courses/#computer-s...

I wonder if anyone knows the answer to this Q. Back in the day, UK universities, and in particular Open University, often let you take as long as you liked to finish a Phd. I knew someone who in the 1980s got a lecturer job at Cambridge Uni with only a Masters, and over a period of 16 yrs got a Phd part-time. But it seems this got clamped down, and now unis don't like to see anyone take longer than 6 yrs to complete a Phd, thus restricting opportunities for those working full-time / raising families at the same time. Does anyone know of some exception to this? I quite fancy doing a Phd myself one day, but I assume I'd have to do it in "stealth mode" unofficially for a few yrs without a supervisor first, getting quite far down the line then approaching a supervisor when it seemed like could complete it within 6 yrs, and that whole approach seems potentially to have pit-falls

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#263

Post by sulam »

BeetleB wrote: post #93
cg30e wrote: post #71

This is very inspiring. I too am young and been in the work force for several years, but unlike the other comments in this thread I am not settled down as an older student returning to school. I am willing to give up a high paying salary to return back to school as a PhD student and I am not tied down with a mortgage or anything else. I find mathematics simply too interesting to not learn at the highest level. Workin…

Some cautionary comments: Often your advisor in grad school will force you to focus on what they want rather than what you want to learn. This is less likely in a math department, but more likely in a CS one. As with everything, it all depends on your advisor. The PhD is replete with hoops you have to take that will be orthogonal to your goal of learning (e.g. spending a lot of your time doing HW on the professor's p…

While everything else you say may be true, I take issue with efficiency being a function of age. Fundamentally you have no idea how many years you will get. Be efficient at all ages, and live like it might (and might not!) be your last year, regardless. Personally I’ve had close brushes with death a couple times in my life, and the dice roll could easily have gone the other way. I’m sure I’m far from alone in this.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#264

Post by selectodude »

silisili wrote: post #42
selectodude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went back to school with the same fears. It comes back to you.

Genuinely, thanks for sharing. I always want to go back, but fear I'll embarrass myself. Or at least realize my age is catching up eith me. Out of curiosity, what did you go back for, and how did it go?

Economics - I took some calculus classes at the local community college to sort of spool up and get back into it. I was the weird old guy asking questions that nobody cared about but it’s been a great experience all around. And honestly the concepts are far more important than than the mental math, we all use calculators now :)

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#265

Post by maxnoe »

ildon wrote: post #148
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You definitely aren’t too old By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. I guess the more appropriate word would be something more like "settled". As it stands, I have a mortgage and whatnot to take care of, it's not really realistic for me to quit my job and focus full-time on a PhD for the next 5-6 years. > but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere That seems to b…

EU Professor here. You're right, expectations are very different in the "old continent". Things very quite significantly from country to country, but generally speaking in most EU you can do your PhD while working. Retrospectively, knowing what I know know, I should add that if I were to start a PhD now I wouldn't trust a university that asks for a full time commitment, no exceptions. I would be very suspicious that…

> Things very quite significantly from country to country, but generally speaking in most EU you can do your PhD while working.

In physics? I don't think so. I did my PHD in Germany but we work in large international collaborations, so I meet s lot of phd students from other countries as well.

Doing a phd in physics is everywhere I know at least a full time job. Often, depending on topic, group, supervisor and yourself even more than a 40 hour week.

The complexity, depth and specialization required don't really allow for anything else.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#266

Post by MattSteelblade »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #19

The title should really be "Earns Second PhD at 89" This is not one of those stories about someone who "always dreamed of earning a PhD". This is an MD who already had a PhD in Biochemistry from MIT.

I think it was his third doctoral degree.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#267

Post by snake42 »

jrumbut wrote: post #261
snake42 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I work allows full-time employees to get their PHD and also gives some paid time to write your thesis. You can also propose research projects that align with your thesis topic. Edit: Also tuition is free. https://careers.gtri.gatech.edu/en-us/listing/

Wow I thought my employer (Massachusetts) had been generous just allowing it and paying for it, but time to write your thesis? That's a great opportunity and I hope someone goes for it.

Yeah it is a pretty nice place to work. Downside is that we are state employees, so salaries are lower than in industry (sometimes).

I know several people I work with going this route right now, so some people do it!

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#268

Post by bumby »

CalRobert wrote: post #157
azhenley wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor here. You definitely aren’t too old, but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere. A PhD is a full-time job. It took me 6.5 years and was hard enough with very little outside distractions.

Why should someone give up several years of income for a PhD?

I think this is a false dichotomy even though it fits in with the traditional American template.

"Go work in industry after undergrad/masters" or "forgo making money to pursue a PhD".

Maybe it's borne from the bubble of academia, but as I got more experience in industry it became apparent there were many, many more pathways to a PhD than were discussed while in university.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#269

Post by _fat_santa »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #53
ghaff wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be aware that the meme that any developer with a pulse can make so much money they can retire in their 30s plays out very rarely. (ADDED: And if you're in that top tiny percent of success, will you really just drop out?) That said, you'll almost certainly make more money as an SWE than in academia. I do know someone who got a PhD in their early 40s or so in a pause from tech and is back in tech. I gather they thought…

Yeah, this is important to consider. The barrier to entry is lower than ever, but truly excelling in software development is still non-trivial.

I think about it like this. Software Engineering is still a damn hard industry to break into AND be successful in, but that barrier is masked by the democratization of tools and resources.

I've had many friends ask he how they can get into SWE, they see me, a 20 something, making more than their parents make. I used to give the advice "anyone can do it, you just have to practice". I've since stopped giving that exact advice.

My advice now is "you can do it, but it's going to take at least 2-4 years of almost complete dedication". The disconnect for all my friends is I think, is none of them see what I do on a daily basis. Coding, coding, more coding, reading articles about coding, and more coding.

I realized the only reason it was so "easy" for me is that I really liked it, so spending hours in front of a screen learning all this wasn't a drain on me like it would be on other people. Looking back it was by no means easy, and you have to keep working on it. I don't put in the insane hours i used to in my early 20's, but my Github history still has commits every single day except for maybe Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#270

Post by bumby »

tombert wrote: post #237
vaylian wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because money isn't everything. Indulging in an intellectual pursuit in an environment that fosters investigative minds can be a wonderful thing.

> Because money isn't everything. I agree, and neither is a PhD, but I don't think that's a great reason. "Why don't we pay teachers a decent wage? Because money isn't everything and helping students grow to the next generation is something that is inspiring in itself." It's easy to say "money isn't everything" when you don't have to worry about money. A single parent is unlikely to be able to quit a decent-paying jo…

Indeed, the GP admitted it's an "indulgence", i.e., a luxury to be able to pursue a PhD for the love of the process. I don't think it's realistic for many people, particularly a single parent, nor necessary to have a fulfilling career that makes significant academic contributions.
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