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CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

mdpi.com

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Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#21

I didn't read the article, but my very basic understanding of mRNA vaccines is that they cause your own cells to produce the spike protein so that your immune system can learn to attack it without actually having the virus present. Does this finding imply that the vaccine would also inhibit DNA damage repair? Or is it more like, in combination with the virus, the spike protein inhibits DNA repair?

edit: this journal might not be worth paying attention to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI#Controversies

>Does this finding imply that the vaccine would also inhibit DNA damage repair?

Well, yes, but consider the context. If you read the article, and it's almost beyond belief that I have to recommend that you read the article in order to discuss it -- indeed, the information that might assuage your fears is in the very first paragraph -- it's been observed that a consequence of surviving a serious case of COVID is that your immune system is fucked, both during and afterward:

>"SARS–CoV–2 infection extraordinarily affects lymphocyte number and function [3,4,5,6]. Compared with mild and moderate survivors, patients with severe COVID–19 manifest a significantly lower number of total T cells, helper T cells, and suppressor T cells [3,4]. Additionally, COVID–19 delays IgG and IgM levels after symptom onset [5,6]. Collectively, these clinical observations suggest that SARS–CoV–2 affects the adaptive immune system."

Searching for a means by which the vaccine might meaningfully damage your adaptive immune system is ill-advised. Frankly, we've got terrifying amounts of information about the deleterious effects of catching and surviving serious COVID, and administration of a vaccine tends to uncontroversially downgrade the seriousness of the COVID infection that you will almost assuredly get eventually. Thus, even if the vaccine harms you in some way, COVID itself will do worse.

That said, the Discussion section does suggest that there may be improvements to full-spike vaccines in future,

>"indicating that full–length spike–based vaccines may inhibit the recombination of V(D)J in B cells, which is also consistent with a recent study that a full–length spike–based vaccine induced lower antibody titers compared to the RBD–based vaccine [28]. This suggests that the use of antigenic epitopes of the spike as a SARS–CoV–2 vaccine might be safer and more efficacious than the full–length spike."

I'll again point out that however the spike might fuck with B and T cells, the full-blown virus will surely do more.

Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t make sense.

I agree, but the mRNA vaccines factually aren't long lasting. Get your booster if you haven't yet, its important since the protection is about half in under half a year. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

> I agree, but the mRNA vaccines factually aren't long lasting. Get your booster if you haven't yet, its important since the protection is about half in under half a year.

This is misinformation. From your link:

> Vaccine effectiveness against hospital admissions for infections with the delta variant for all ages was high overall (93% [95% CI 84–96]) up to 6 months.

A post regarding a possible "issue" with the vaccines is a strange place to engage in "get your booster!" fearmongering by highlighting VE against infection as compared to the far more important endpoints of hospitalization and death.

Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#24

The key finding: > Our findings provide evidence of the spike protein hijacking the DNA damage repair machinery and adaptive immune machinery in vitro. We propose a potential mechanism by which spike proteins may impair adaptive immunity by inhibiting DNA damage repair. Although no evidence has been published that SARS–CoV–2 can infect thymocytes or bone marrow lymphoid cells, our in vitro V(D)J reporter assay shows…

> … findings are obviously not as compelling…, but it sounds like this issue is worthy of further investigation.

That about sums up any article submitted to a garbage MDPI journal.

Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#25

"Mechanistically, we found that the spike protein localizes in the nucleus and inhibits DNA..." Can anyone translate?

This is an engineering error at its heart. By design the spike protein were supposed to be expressed and embedded in the surface of the cell where they could be recognized by the immune system. Some proportion of them lingering and having any action within the cell was not foreseen.

Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#26

I didn't read the article, but my very basic understanding of mRNA vaccines is that they cause your own cells to produce the spike protein so that your immune system can learn to attack it without actually having the virus present. Does this finding imply that the vaccine would also inhibit DNA damage repair? Or is it more like, in combination with the virus, the spike protein inhibits DNA repair?

TLDR: some vaccine maybe safer than other.

This article calls out "full–length spike–based vaccine".

"suggests that the use of antigenic epitopes of the spike as a SARS–CoV–2 vaccine might be safer and more efficacious than the full–length spike"

"This work will improve the understanding of COVID–19 pathogenesis and provide new strategies for designing more efficient and safer vaccines."

Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#27
post #20

The key finding: > Our findings provide evidence of the spike protein hijacking the DNA damage repair machinery and adaptive immune machinery in vitro. We propose a potential mechanism by which spike proteins may impair adaptive immunity by inhibiting DNA damage repair. Although no evidence has been published that SARS–CoV–2 can infect thymocytes or bone marrow lymphoid cells, our in vitro V(D)J reporter assay shows…

According to the CDC, the mRNA vaccines do NOT induce creation of the full spike: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna.html > mRNA vaccines tell our cells to make a piece of the “spike protein” that is found on the surface of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Since only part of the protein is made, it does not harm the vaccine recipient, but it is antigenic and thus stimulates the immune system to make antibodies.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

> BNT162b2 is a lipid nanoparticle–formulated, nucleoside-modified RNA vaccine that encodes a prefusion stabilized, membrane-anchored SARS-CoV-2 full-length spike protein.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-021-00369-6

> The two mRNA vaccines in current widespread application (BioNTech-Pfizer and Moderna) (Table 1) are technologically very similar. They contain codon-optimized sequences for efficient expression of the full-length S protein and use the authentic signal sequence for its biosynthesis44,45,46,47 (Fig. 1b).

> The unifying feature of all current adenovirus-vaccine vectors is the replacement of one of the early adenoviral genes (E1) for the full-length SARS-Cov-2 S gene in the adenoviral DNA (Fig. 4a) and the additional deletion of E3

From this post:

> To date, many approved SARS–CoV–2 vaccines, such as mRNA vaccines and adenovirus–COVID–19 vaccines, have been developed based on the full–length spike protein

If the mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines weren't expressing the full-length spike, this research would be pointless in the context of the vaccines and the researchers wouldn't raise their findings as a possible efficacy and safety issue for the vaccines.

Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#29

I didn't read the article, but my very basic understanding of mRNA vaccines is that they cause your own cells to produce the spike protein so that your immune system can learn to attack it without actually having the virus present. Does this finding imply that the vaccine would also inhibit DNA damage repair? Or is it more like, in combination with the virus, the spike protein inhibits DNA repair?

It does imply that the vaccine would also inhibit DNA damage repair. I think the key question is timescale. I suspect this would be a short-term side effect, with no real impact. If not -- if it's longitudinal -- it could be scary. I can't imagine how that would happen, though. Virus would have the same effect, so this isn't an anti-vax argument.

When you say "the vaccine", do you mean the mRNA vaccines specifically, or all of the vaccines?

Re: CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Recombination in Vitro

#30

I didn't read the article, but my very basic understanding of mRNA vaccines is that they cause your own cells to produce the spike protein so that your immune system can learn to attack it without actually having the virus present. Does this finding imply that the vaccine would also inhibit DNA damage repair? Or is it more like, in combination with the virus, the spike protein inhibits DNA repair?

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