Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious. • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#171

Post by klbarry » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 4:56 PM UTC

kiiski wrote: post #78

Meai wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You come up with only a single, high level reason for what could have thousands of reasons, and you seriously come up with one that is a detriment to our entire species. Draw from that conclusions on your capacity and will for logical thinking, sorry this has to be blunt. You are the modern day crusader. You get an idea in your head with next to no logical reasons and then start to proselytize everyone around you. I'…

Unless I misread something, you didn't actually deny that peace was the ultimate cause of the problems. "Detriment to our entire species" is also far from proven. This far mankind has done pretty well even with all the wars. While it's certainly unfortunate for the ones actually involved in the war, it might be better for "the greater good". Or maybe it isn't. The point is that you shouldn't dismiss an argument just…

I've always thought that it was the challenge that caused society to work towards a common goal. Violence is one part of that, but the space race worked effectively (though that was closely related to the cold war).

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#172

Post by johnny22 » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:07 PM UTC

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #118

burgerbrain wrote: post #3

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

this happens largely because contract law is ignored by judges whenever contracts violate their ideals. activist judges are a very serious issue that has huge costs for society. corporations are resorting to third party arbitration because enforcement of contracts by the prevailing legal system is not reliable.

activists judges are a serious issue?

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#173

Post by rdouble » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:15 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #149

yardie wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I agree that most divorce proceedings do favor women. 2. As a friend of an attorney who tells me that most of his male clients never seek custody and don't even petition for visitation rights until the CS payments start coming due this is completely inline with our society. I'm sorry, but once the divorce is finished most guys just want to move on with their life, the family they had becomes an encumberment. Most…

Point #3 is not entirely true. The article seemed to imply that the law was all about advocating for the child, instead of pandering to a disagreement between the biological parents at the (possible) expense of the child. This implies that I may not even need to have sex to be forced into child support payments. For example, what if someone sneaks into my bedroom at night (or maybe we're sharing a hotel room while tr…

some crazy woman somewhere decide that they want to force the man to create a child?

The third verse of every other rap song is about this very topic.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#174

Post by known » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:24 PM UTC

I believe marriage and career are mutually exclusive for women in Asia

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#175

Post by goatcat » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:29 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

Your point of view is not particulary controversial or shocking, or unique to you. But I find little evidence for it and much to the contrary. For example, take a look at WW2 in USA:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12179705

or simply look at birth rates in Israel, a very militarized country.

True purpose of war lies elsewhere. As Orwell said:

The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of the war is not to make or prevent conquests of territory, but to keep the structure of society intact.

And obviously, lots of subjects will internalize values of ruling group and believe that war is good for economy or birth rates ;)

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#176

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:32 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

[deleted]

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#177

Post by morrow » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:50 PM UTC

dm3 wrote: post #117

morrow wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting observation - I think another way to describe this phenomenon is that every society has to convince it's members to accept their individual role as members of society in order for it to function (you might argue that is society's only purpose). We can't all be kings, senators, business tycoons, etc. -- someone has to be the janitor or the street sweeper or the factory worker, and society's basic purpose i…

There is a significant body of work done by Lev Gumilev on the death and genesis of ethnoi (the cyclical nature of societies, as You've put it). It will certainly let you see things from a different perspective. Sadly, most of his books weren't translated from russian. One that I could find is http://www.amazon.com/Ethnogenesis-biosphere-L-N-Gumilev/dp/... . EDIT: found a free on-line version of the book - http://cos…

thanks, will definitely check this out!

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#178

Post by icebraining » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:51 PM UTC

neutronicus wrote: post #162

icebraining wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Values: That's why religion works, it keeps values deep inside and transmit them from a generation to another. More people have died on armed conflicts in the name of religion than for any other reason. National Socialism, for example, is a drop in the bucket compared to it. In the 'States, non-religious people are much less likely to be in jail. Religion is great at transmitting values, no doubt, but it's usually…

You have no idea what the relevant numbers are. The estimated loss of life during the Crusades ranges from 3-10 million lives. Current estimates place the Russian loss of life alone from WWII at 19.5 million.

This[1] page puts the sum of deaths of religious wars at 800 million.

[1]: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatz.htm

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#179

Post by sliverstorm » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 5:59 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #149

yardie wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I agree that most divorce proceedings do favor women. 2. As a friend of an attorney who tells me that most of his male clients never seek custody and don't even petition for visitation rights until the CS payments start coming due this is completely inline with our society. I'm sorry, but once the divorce is finished most guys just want to move on with their life, the family they had becomes an encumberment. Most…

Point #3 is not entirely true. The article seemed to imply that the law was all about advocating for the child, instead of pandering to a disagreement between the biological parents at the (possible) expense of the child. This implies that I may not even need to have sex to be forced into child support payments. For example, what if someone sneaks into my bedroom at night (or maybe we're sharing a hotel room while tr…

There was actually another case I don't have a link to at the moment where a guy passed out drunk at a party and a women he had never met essentially raped him in his sleep. Yup, he was forced to pay child support too.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#180

Post by dctoedt » Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 6:43 PM UTC

NY_Entrepreneur wrote: post #166

Seems to me that the article missed the most central point. Let's start with a little, simple, relevant background: (1) In the past, e.g., in tribal or agricultural communities, women had children whether they really 'wanted' to or not. (2) Now in more industrialized countries, a significant fraction of women have some options. Some women still have children but some women do not want to have children and do not. (3)…

> After a few such generations, we will be left with a much smaller population with many fewer women but nearly all of whom WANT to have children. Then the population will start growing again.

This is a fascinating and well-thought-out analysis, but it seems to make two potentially-dangerous assumptions:

1) It assumes that those women who really WANT to have children, have this desire mainly because of their genetic heritage.

Unfortunately, we don't know enough about human motivation to be able to say this with any confidence.

Even if the vast majority of a generation of women really wanted to have children, I don't know how we could confidently predict that their daughters would feel the same way.

2) The analysis assumes that such a genetic trait is inherited maternally. If instead the trait comes from a mix of the mother's and father's genes, or even from the father alone (let alone a combination of genetics and environment), we probably won't know how to predict what will happen N generations on.