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First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

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Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#41

Post by mistrial9 »

simiones wrote: post #38
inside65 wrote: post #32

Many would argue this already occurred with Jesus, born from the virgin Mary.

Most Christians believe that that was not some biological process, but a true miracle where God himself bestowed this child on Mary. It would be technically correct that this was parthenogenesis, but it is a completely different... mechanism. Most non-Christians, even if they believe Jesus was a true historical figure, do not believe that his mother was a virgin.

this is complicated, nuanced and not literal; it is a typical thing for critics to latch on to, so let's be wise-cautious with the exposition here at YNews, please

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#42

Post by simiones »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #23
bencollier49 wrote: post #6

So in birds, sex chromosome arrangement is a reverse of what we have in humans. Their males are ZZ and the female is ZW. Which is why only males appear from this parthenogenesis.

If the females are ZW, why can't they make WW or ZW?

ZW is less likely because normally parthenogenesis starts with a haploid egg cell (Z or W) that undergoes meiosis alone, copying its own chromosomes - becoming ZZ if it started as Z and WW if it started as W. WW is normally not viable, just like YY in mammals, so the most likely case of parthenogenesis by far is ZZ, male.

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#43

Post by simiones »

mistrial9 wrote: post #41
simiones wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Christians believe that that was not some biological process, but a true miracle where God himself bestowed this child on Mary. It would be technically correct that this was parthenogenesis, but it is a completely different... mechanism. Most non-Christians, even if they believe Jesus was a true historical figure, do not believe that his mother was a virgin.

this is complicated, nuanced and not literal; it is a typical thing for critics to latch on to, so let's be wise-cautious with the exposition here at YNews, please

Absolutely. I wasn't trying to criticize anyone's beliefs, and I hope I didn't come across as such, and sincerely apologize if it did.

My only point was exactly that it's not a great idea to take a religious experience and analyze it as an example of a basic biological phenomenon.

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#44

Post by DocFeind »

I can't explain how stoked I am about this, I was in SanDiego when they were on the verge of extinction, even got the chance to go behind the scenes for the original breeding program. Knowing nature refuses to let them fade away even without our intervention is epicly awesome news.

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#46

Post by s1artibartfast »

simiones wrote: post #42
s1artibartfast wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the females are ZW, why can't they make WW or ZW?

ZW is less likely because normally parthenogenesis starts with a haploid egg cell (Z or W) that undergoes meiosis alone, copying its own chromosomes - becoming ZZ if it started as Z and WW if it started as W. WW is normally not viable, just like YY in mammals, so the most likely case of parthenogenesis by far is ZZ, male.

Thank you!

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#47

Post by anunnymouse »

mistrial9 wrote: post #41
simiones wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Christians believe that that was not some biological process, but a true miracle where God himself bestowed this child on Mary. It would be technically correct that this was parthenogenesis, but it is a completely different... mechanism. Most non-Christians, even if they believe Jesus was a true historical figure, do not believe that his mother was a virgin.

this is complicated, nuanced and not literal; it is a typical thing for critics to latch on to, so let's be wise-cautious with the exposition here at YNews, please

'this is complicated, nuanced and not literal' - arn't most things though? At least the person you are replying to started their comment with a weasel word - you're the one making the categorical statement about whether it is literal.

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#49

Post by Symmetry »

lmkg wrote: post #22
hristov wrote: post #14

I think it is far more likely the researchers screwed up here.

Parthenogenesis is more common in the animal kingdom than you might expect.

At least part time parthenogenesis. Eukaryotic species sometimes go all in on asexual reproduction but almost always die out in a few million years due to not being able to evolve along with changing conditions.
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