Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#101

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #78

bityard wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this indicative of a serious problem though? If there were places IRL where the average person is subjected to a constant barrage of callousness it wouldn't continue to exist, would it? Haha, "if"? You must live in a very different world than I do. Junior high school, the old guys running the local hardware store, almost every cubicle farm in the financial services industry, the city of New York... I could gi…

When they cross certain lines they become illegal harassment, and there are ways to handle them. I've worked with people who have been fired for "cubicle farm in the financial services industry" type of behavior, and it's becoming less and less acceptable as time goes on. In high school a group of boys was expelled for writing homophobic slurs on another student's locker. I lived in NYC for a period of time, and it's…

Are death threats not already illegal?

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#102

Post by mdp2021 » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

mandmandam wrote: post #28

Subsentient wrote: post #26

And this is why I'm never going to move to Europe. My jokes would be considered "obscene" or "indecent" or something and I'd be thrown in prison. At least here in the States, for now, the government is letting the private companies perform the censorship, and not imprisoning people for tasteless humor.

Who is getting thrown in to prison for jokes? Assange was thrown into jail for basic journalism, but that was at America's behest.

In some countries legal bases were set for imprisoning people after jokes.

Cassandra Vera Paz, Spanish, aged 22 during the event, was charged in 2016 with "injury to victims of terrorism", in the context of legislation "against the praising of terrorism", after she posted jokes on twitter - the homicide through explosives of Luis Carrero Blanco, ally to General Franco, by the Basque separatist group ETA, was related to a (NASA like) "space programme". She was condemned in 2017 to spend one year in prison (plus a year of "absolute disqualification" from public offices and aid). The ruling was reversed in 2018 by the Supreme Court, which called the jokes socially and morally reprehensible but not sufficient for penal sanction.

Granddaughter Lucia Carrero Blanco reportedly wrote «I’m scared of a society in which freedom of expression, however regrettable it may be, can lead to jail sentences».

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#103

Post by kodah » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

md8z wrote: post #90

kodah wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of "psychological harm" will vary by person, which is inconsistent with the enforcement of law. How one person reacts to a traumatic experience will vary vastly between other people. There can be no standard legal definition, so what you'll get is psychologists and therapists testifying their opinion with the outcome that someone goes to jail.

But don't we already call doctors as expert witnesses? And don't we already define various kinds of harm as varying by the person? None of that seems to to be controversial.

Psychology and medicine are very different things. For instance, a doctor will be made to explain how another doctor screwed up a surgery so bad that it qualifies as "reckless endangerment". This is backed by reproducible studies and academic rigor on a given subject. Psychology lacks both reproducible studies and academic rigor, hence you'd have opinions.

Psychological harm smells to me a lot like "bite mark analysis" which it took quite a long while for us to undo in the United States. It also put countless people in prison for crimes they didn't commit.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#104

Post by breakfastduck » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

lgleason wrote: post #10

The UK is quickly becoming an authoritarian country. RIP freedom and democracy.

The worst bit is, and I say this as someone who is and always has been very left wing, that the current left wing culture are actually making this possible.

They've winged and winged about anyone tweeting anything controversial about a perceived 'vulnerable minority' and this has always been the end game. They want people to be punished for causing offense.

I can't believe these morons go around joining groups like antifa, protesting against authoritarianism and yet spend half their energy campaigning for laws that would be an authoritarian governments wet dream.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#105

Post by kelseyfrog » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

selfhoster11 wrote: post #18

kelseyfrog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird comment. Why lead with a false dichotomy and then slide into everything is a gray area? Maybe pick an example and go with that?

It's not a false dichotomy, it's a hyperbole meant to illustrate an uncomfortable trade-off.

It isn't a trade off. That's the falseness of setting it up as two mutually exclusive and exhaustive choices. There are better ways to make a point than hyperbole.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#106

Post by ebanana » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

maybe we can start with journalists from cnn and fox using social media or members from the ccp using social media to cause a culture way between the two ruling parties in the us

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#107

Post by zarzavat » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

ectopod wrote: post #58

laurent92 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the trend is to remove factual information from trials rather than add some. For example, in many Western countries, it is now forbidden to present during a trial the SMS exchanged with a “victim of rape” before meeting, and to seize the messages between her and her friends, because it would cause psychological harm to this person. So the only remaining evidence is he-said-she-said, which is prone for…

Jurors can take notes in the UK but it seems like you need to bring your own writing material. https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/21/taking-notes-boosts-...

Quite the opposite at least where I did it a few years ago. Your notes are not allowed to leave the court. If you use your own notebook then you will have to say goodbye to it after the trial. Our court provided writing material to all jurors, we didn't have to ask for it, and we were encouraged to take notes.

All notes have to stay in the court room or deliberation room, this is to protect the privacy of the jury deliberations - jurors are sworn to a lifetime of secrecy over deliberations, and are not allowed to discuss the case outside of court while it is ongoing.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#108

Post by sky_rw » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

concinds wrote: post #68

A society where: - you are held responsible for other people's feelings, and for their feelings as a result of your words and actions, and: - anything that causes anyone to feel bad, is looked down upon by the collective Is tyranny by the emotionally stunted. The fundamental problem with it, is it makes society more enmeshed (a pathological relationship dynamic). People start caring more about going with the grain, t…

This is what the beginning of a matriarchal tyranny looks like.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#109

Post by concinds » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

KittenInABox wrote: post #93

concinds wrote: post #68

A society where: - you are held responsible for other people's feelings, and for their feelings as a result of your words and actions, and: - anything that causes anyone to feel bad, is looked down upon by the collective Is tyranny by the emotionally stunted. The fundamental problem with it, is it makes society more enmeshed (a pathological relationship dynamic). People start caring more about going with the grain, t…

> You are responsible for making yourself happy, for asserting yourself, for setting any boundaries you choose. People on Twitter can just block, or mute, or turn off their DMs for people they don't follow. This solution does not account for the following ways a troll can harass you: * sockpuppets pinging you, * sockpuppets impersonating you, * sockpuppets mass reporting you, thereby suspending your accounts * findin…

It might seem callous, and it might be (and I know some people have poor mental health at times and social media onslaughts won't help) but my solution is to not let things affect me. If Viktor Frankl could do it in death camps, I think it's something everyone can rely on. You can also become the heel, become the "villain", and use that abuse to gain influence rather than lose it; most social media abuse is unjustified so there's nothing unethical about this. The alternative is having people go to jail or get a suspended sentence because they insulted J.K Rowling in a tweet.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#110

Post by asxd » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

selfhoster11 wrote: post #18

kelseyfrog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird comment. Why lead with a false dichotomy and then slide into everything is a gray area? Maybe pick an example and go with that?

It's not a false dichotomy, it's a hyperbole meant to illustrate an uncomfortable trade-off.

Presenting two choices as mutually exclusive, when they are not, is definitely a false dichotomy.