Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#51

Post by kodah » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

md8z wrote: post #17

recursivedoubts wrote: post #6

subjectivity is loved by the powerful rule of subjectivity is, at the end of the day, rule of the powerful: when two parties disagree and the situation can be defined in primarily subjective terms, the most powerful party wins by hiding behind outcast, oppressed or unpopular groups with often legitimate (though perhaps subjective, to an extent) grievances, the powerful are able to push through the subjective zeitgeis…

What's subjective about it though? Do you think it is not possible by now for us to collectively come up with an objective definition of what trolling and abusive language is? To me it's pretty clear after spending just a few minutes on Twitter...

The definition of "psychological harm" will vary by person, which is inconsistent with the enforcement of law. How one person reacts to a traumatic experience will vary vastly between other people.

There can be no standard legal definition, so what you'll get is psychologists and therapists testifying their opinion with the outcome that someone goes to jail.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#52

Post by grayhatter » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

md8z wrote: post #27

nathias wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is trolling.

I'm not trolling, I've personally suffered psychological harm from online abuse. There are many places on the internet that I'd like to go but can't because people are too abusive and nobody does anything about it. What am I supposed to do if people don't even want to talk about this or acknowledge that it's a real problem that we can solve?

you... don't... go there.

This isn't a hard concept. I don't willingly walk into a mine field, but some people do. I'd totally accompany them if I also had any of the dozens of mine detecting, or detonating tools, vehicles.

You may have a moral obligation to stop people from being hurt, but you have no moral obligation to stop people who willingly choose to be hurt, or accept the risk it.

You are in control of the media you consume online. If you don't like the online community standards, leave and block that community. Or develop the equivalent of mine detection or explosive resistance coping mechanisms for verbal for visual abuse. Before you walk into the communities that permit hostility.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#53

Post by soco » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #22

recursivedoubts wrote: post #6

subjectivity is loved by the powerful rule of subjectivity is, at the end of the day, rule of the powerful: when two parties disagree and the situation can be defined in primarily subjective terms, the most powerful party wins by hiding behind outcast, oppressed or unpopular groups with often legitimate (though perhaps subjective, to an extent) grievances, the powerful are able to push through the subjective zeitgeis…

And this is why the trend is to remove factual information from trials rather than add some. For example, in many Western countries, it is now forbidden to present during a trial the SMS exchanged with a “victim of rape” before meeting, and to seize the messages between her and her friends, because it would cause psychological harm to this person. So the only remaining evidence is he-said-she-said, which is prone for…

Uh where is this happening? Definitely not in CH...

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#54

Post by aaomidi » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

White_Wolf wrote: post #44

laurent92 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the trend is to remove factual information from trials rather than add some. For example, in many Western countries, it is now forbidden to present during a trial the SMS exchanged with a “victim of rape” before meeting, and to seize the messages between her and her friends, because it would cause psychological harm to this person. So the only remaining evidence is he-said-she-said, which is prone for…

I'm happy i'm too old for this s*t. So what happens now? If some guys ends up on the receiving end of regret charges, what can they do to defend themselves? Wear body cams to record all intercourse and save as a proof of consent?

Have you confirmed that what the other poster said is true, and that text messages are not admissible evidence in a court of law?

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#55

Post by colpabar » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

md8z wrote: post #37

Clubber wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in the US, you get to choose from a group of politicians. All those politicians need money to run their campaigns. Those politicians get money from corporate interests to fund their campaigns. Therefore, nearly all politicians you are able to choose from have already been tainted by corporate money. Corporate interests don't just cut big checks and expect nothing in return. Point being, this is a law that helps th…

I really don't see how that's relevant here, if you really want to take that angle, then every law can be abused by corrupt officials. I agree with your complaint about that, corruption in politics is sadly nothing new. But that is a different problem to address, can we please discuss policy and not derail the discussion with cynicism about politicians? It's not interesting conversation and I feel like this is just s…

If we are talking about laws, it is absolutely not irrelevant to talk about the people who will be enforcing them. This thread is about an extremely subjective law, and some people think that's a really bad idea because the people enforcing it will abuse it, because it's easy to do.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#56

Post by zarzavat » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

md8z wrote: post #27

nathias wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is trolling.

I'm not trolling, I've personally suffered psychological harm from online abuse. There are many places on the internet that I'd like to go but can't because people are too abusive and nobody does anything about it. What am I supposed to do if people don't even want to talk about this or acknowledge that it's a real problem that we can solve?

When I was a kid my teachers used to say to me "sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you" when another kid said something mean.

Were they wrong? Yes, as an adult I've found that words can actually be quite hurtful. But usually from people I already know.

Strangers? I don't think strangers can hurt with words, they are strangers after all, unless they get your real identity. I think a lot of the problem people have with "trolling" is actually caused by self-doxing. When one person is anonymous and another person is under their real name, it creates a power imbalance.

Realistically, people can post on the internet from 200-odd jurisdictions, this is not something that the law could or should be preventing.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#57

Post by md8z » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #46

md8z wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trolling, I've personally suffered psychological harm from online abuse. There are many places on the internet that I'd like to go but can't because people are too abusive and nobody does anything about it. What am I supposed to do if people don't even want to talk about this or acknowledge that it's a real problem that we can solve?

Why would you want to go to a place where people are too abusive? I try to avoid such places. So far it's working out for me alright.

Because I don't think these places (Twitter, Facebook, etc) need to be places where people are too abusive. My impression is that a lot of people who are there aren't happy with the abuse there either.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#58

Post by ectopod » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #22

recursivedoubts wrote: post #6

subjectivity is loved by the powerful rule of subjectivity is, at the end of the day, rule of the powerful: when two parties disagree and the situation can be defined in primarily subjective terms, the most powerful party wins by hiding behind outcast, oppressed or unpopular groups with often legitimate (though perhaps subjective, to an extent) grievances, the powerful are able to push through the subjective zeitgeis…

And this is why the trend is to remove factual information from trials rather than add some. For example, in many Western countries, it is now forbidden to present during a trial the SMS exchanged with a “victim of rape” before meeting, and to seize the messages between her and her friends, because it would cause psychological harm to this person. So the only remaining evidence is he-said-she-said, which is prone for…

Jurors can take notes in the UK but it seems like you need to bring your own writing material.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/21/taking-notes-boosts-...

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#59

Post by blueflow » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

White_Wolf wrote: post #44

laurent92 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the trend is to remove factual information from trials rather than add some. For example, in many Western countries, it is now forbidden to present during a trial the SMS exchanged with a “victim of rape” before meeting, and to seize the messages between her and her friends, because it would cause psychological harm to this person. So the only remaining evidence is he-said-she-said, which is prone for…

I'm happy i'm too old for this s*t. So what happens now? If some guys ends up on the receiving end of regret charges, what can they do to defend themselves? Wear body cams to record all intercourse and save as a proof of consent?

There are preventive measures - stay away from women and avoid hiring them.

This is not the world we want, but a hopefully temporary workaround.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#60

Post by mathverse » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

cal5k wrote: post #49

mathverse wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not only UK. It is NZ and Australia as well. It is really weird to watch these countries to mimic CCP controlled China without all the benefits that CCP managed to pull off.

Canada as well. All Commonwealth countries seem to be reading from an identical script at this point.

I did not know thar about Canada. Thought it is a bit on the rational side of things compared to the other 3.

Sad to hear that.