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Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

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Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#111

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

Japan cannot re-militarize. It's constitutionally impossible. Even if they could I think there's more going on here. There's a lot of underlying conflict in Japanese culture that isn't immediately visible. This kind of conflict spans thousands of years of cultural history; the cultural thing to do is to hide your true feelings in the name of harmonious relationships[1]. But the outcome doesn't seem to be that conflict is truly stopped just deferred.

In the case of Japan birthrates have been a subject of concern for at least the last two decades. There are many potential contributing factors, not the least of which is the enormous amount of stress on the average family and the exorbitant cost of living in a megalopolis such as Tokyo; the stress of working long hours and having high expenses is enough to prevent people from having kids and even having a relationship.

Although geopolitically Japan is generally a peaceful society de facto I would argue that that is not necessarily true culturally. And even in the context of geopolitics there is a fair amount of drama in Asia that involves Japan, e.g. between the South Koreans, China, Taiwan, and Japan.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#112
post #101

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

"This has happened many times through history. It's happening in Japan right now. If I became an advisor to anyone in the Japanese government, I'd advocate two things as chief priorities - (1) exceedingly good relations with China, and (2) re-militarize. Then join the next war they can on America's or China's side. Combined with some standard messages of nationalism/strength/growth/unity, birth rates would almost cer…

I didn't read the suggestion as applying to a war between China and the U.S., but rather, to joining some conflict such as the U.S. in Iraq, or China in Mongolia. (No, I don't think the situations have anything in common besides involving the respective nations in strife.)

I say that as a clarification of the discussion, not because I agree that it's a good idea.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#113

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

Yes, we all dream up these world-formulas in the bathtub.

Without going deeper into your "analysis" I assure you that there is no single, unifying causality to the effects you describe.

I also assure you that my country (germany) has a really bad track-record of listening to guys with "easy answers" whose arguments started out strikingly similar to yours.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#114
post #59

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

On the other hand, considering that humans are on top of the food chain, maybe what you describe is a good thing (and we have it in our genes): Population can not grow forever on a planet with a limited amount of resorces. So people either stop having children, or begin killing each other.

malthusian arguments have been debunked. humans are wealth producing, not destroying.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#115
post #104
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may very likely have been right about it in the past, but at least in Europe, two world wars essentially killed any military spirit left -- for everybody. There are no barbarians at the gates, they have all been (mostly) civilized. With regard to the rest of the western world, I think the kind of large scale war you talk about is permanently over -- both because it would be far too expensive for everybody and bec…

>There are no barbarians at the gates, they have all been (mostly) civilized. Given the resurgence of nationalism and right movements holding anti-immigration feelings in Europe right now, that's far from an universal opinion. According to these guys, our gates are wide open and the barbarians are breeding in our backyards. Barbarians being, of course, undesirable immigrants from poor third-world countries, not cool…

Your tone makes it sound like you're dismissing some of the concerns that have given rise to these movements. Make no mistake: importing a large class of people with differing values to society at large will carry frictional costs. How you deal with those costs is much more serious than just calling people racists can solve.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not marriage as an institution is biased against males or females (honestly, it seems to be biased against both) I am always astounded by people who see no value whatsoever in marriage. America is practically founded on capitalism. How can you understand specialization & its benefits, and not see how marriage (well, used to) makes use of it? Yes, if marriage was just about pretending "True Love is real, an…

I love children, but as a specie, we've secured our dominant position on this planet a long time ago. There's over 7 billion of us now. If children isn't your thing, why bring some into the world, and risk neglecting them?

In what sense are we the dominant species?

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#117
post #91

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

Interesting observation - I think another way to describe this phenomenon is that every society has to convince it's members to accept their individual role as members of society in order for it to function (you might argue that is society's only purpose). We can't all be kings, senators, business tycoons, etc. -- someone has to be the janitor or the street sweeper or the factory worker, and society's basic purpose i…

There is a significant body of work done by Lev Gumilev on the death and genesis of ethnoi (the cyclical nature of societies, as You've put it). It will certainly let you see things from a different perspective.

Sadly, most of his books weren't translated from russian. One that I could find is http://www.amazon.com/Ethnogenesis-biosphere-L-N-Gumilev/dp/....

EDIT: found a free on-line version of the book - http://cossackweb.narod.ru/gumilev/contents.htm

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#118

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

this happens largely because contract law is ignored by judges whenever contracts violate their ideals. activist judges are a very serious issue that has huge costs for society. corporations are resorting to third party arbitration because enforcement of contracts by the prevailing legal system is not reliable.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#119
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because, marital/blood link are more stronger than open/causal links.

janees' grammar is terrible, but he's not entirely wrong. We like to think we are above 'foolish' things like being related to people, but as my grandparents have put it, my brothers will always be my brothers. That is one thing that cannot change- and somehow, that is special. Call me base, call me old-fashioned, but I have come to feel that blood ties are not as imaginary as I used to believe.

If you want a concrete reason that "blood" ties are non-imaginary, there's kin selection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection
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