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Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

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Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#61
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things teetering on the edge of "public knowledge". I have never met a single person who believes women receive the short end of the stick in divorce. In fact the only complaint from the women's end of things I've ever heard is '50% of his income is not enough'. It is of course anecdotal, but as best I can tell, it is anecdotal evidence that is shared by every person in America- aka, 'public know…

I won't base too much too heavily on it. The idea that blacks were sub-human was once "public knowledge" because everyone had an anecdote about a black person doing something stupid. It should be stated that: * 'Common sense' is not necessarily common. * 'Public knowledge' doesn't always match up to reality and can often be influenced by social biases (i.e. you may only remember the cases of a man getting the shaft i…

http://web.archive.org/web/20070627182454/http://www.grant-t...

^60% of divorce settlements favorable to women, 40% even, 10% favorable to men. UK, 2004.

http://www.attorneys.com/legal_center/articles/child_custody...

^10-15% of men have sole custody of children

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120700651883978623.html

^3.6% of alimony recipients are male, 2006

I am not a fountain of sources, so I hope this will do for now.

A fun story illustrating how weird things are getting: http://mensnewsdaily.com/2011/02/27/man-receives-oral-sex-or...

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#62

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

I think that today, it's hard to learn from history about such things because of some disruptive changes that happen to war and politics.

1. Democracy

According to the democratic peace theory[1], two stable , long term democracies, rarely or never go to war between them.

2. Nuclear weapons

The threat of nuclear weapons does change the rules of war substantially. I can't see a peaceful nation, that has nuclear weapons , totally conquered by an enemy.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#63
post #62

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

I think that today, it's hard to learn from history about such things because of some disruptive changes that happen to war and politics. 1. Democracy According to the democratic peace theory[1], two stable , long term democracies, rarely or never go to war between them. 2. Nuclear weapons The threat of nuclear weapons does change the rules of war substantially. I can't see a peaceful nation, that has nuclear weapons…

I can't see a peaceful nation, that has nuclear weapons , totally conquered by an enemy

Then we are doomed to conquer ourselves. Or at least, be totally conquered in the economic sector. I don't think we can use nuclear warheads to settle China's stake in the US, lest we receive a serious credit downgrade from S&P.

P.S. It's funny because it's true.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#64

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

Interesting idea. I'd love to hear more about the birth rate numbers historically. I wasn't aware that any large societies experienced sub-replacement fertility levels until the late 20th century, which are typically attributed to the empowerment of women (education, entering workforce, legal equality, etc.), huge reduction in infant mortality, and strong economies/social safety nets.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#65
post #62

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

I think that today, it's hard to learn from history about such things because of some disruptive changes that happen to war and politics. 1. Democracy According to the democratic peace theory[1], two stable , long term democracies, rarely or never go to war between them. 2. Nuclear weapons The threat of nuclear weapons does change the rules of war substantially. I can't see a peaceful nation, that has nuclear weapons…

> I can't see a peaceful nation, that has nuclear weapons , totally conquered by an enemy.

You don't need soldiers to control a country a puppet dictator will do.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#67
I am married to a Japanese and live here right now, so I can only comment on the situation of the country. I will try to give an economical assessment of the situation. As you might be aware Japan had a “lost decade” during the 90s. It experienced almost no growth of the GDP. There are many theories as to why, but the most convincing one is: The Japanese “Baby Boomers” retired during this decade. In fact the percentage of workers in the population (age 15-64) decreased by 5.6% during this time, as the number of retirees increased by 10.7%. http://goo.gl/kVZxB

What does this have to do with anything? / What happens when you have fewer people in the expected working age? 2 things happen:

  1. More people have to work
  2. People have to work longer
The official retirement age for Japanese is 63/61 (M/W), the effective retirement age is 69.5/66.5 http://goo.gl/s9slK (very interesting graph)

My wife held a managerial position before our son was born, amongst her friends hardly any of them want to stay single, they simply don’t have a choice. If they want to sustain their current life standard, marriage would be impossible. One man working has a hard time providing for his wife, kids, paying for a decent home & the mandatory elderly taxes. The taxes are almost 2000 USD per person / year, no matter if employed, or not. And those are just to pay for the pensions; insurances, social etc. come on top of that.

Many women still life / moved back in with their parents, even in their late 40es. It is not because they want to, or cannot find a partner (many of them look quite stunning). The pensions simply don’t suffice and they feel obliged to support their parents. The same holds true for many men.

I very much disagree with the statement that women in Japan enjoy their single life so much, as they choose not to marry. I have yet to meet a Japanese woman, who will state this. Compared to Europe, where this kind of ideology is quite common.

Edit:

Japanese women are expected to do 90% of the housework, where as American women will “only” do 60% of the work. http://goo.gl/qj64W This fact and the very big distance Japanese develop for their spouses are certainly not helping. http://goo.gl/QlAfx Surprisingly no women I ever conversed with, complained about this lack of love between a married couple, on the contrary it is expected by the women. And it often leads to problems in marriages with foreigners.

Edit #2:

If my experience with the Japanese Culture is in any way representative employing more men in the military will be the worst thing imaginable. The country has a deficit of 180% /GDP and every person in the army is one person less doing productive work to keep country afloat.

Edit #3:

When the "Baby Boom" generation will retire in the United states, do you expect the country to sustain a positive GDP? This would mean that every person working will have to work harder and produce more just to reach 0 growth. Something the Japanese managed to do. The only solution to this is immigration, something Japan is battling against.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#68

George Gilder's "Naked Nomad's" is a great book studying single men in America. Unmarried men own the majority of bad statistical categories to be in. Higher death, suicide, crime, and disease rates. No society wants that burden.

I believe that book used to be titled Men and Marriage, right? Essential social science book, I agree.

EDIT: Actually, I see now that those are two different books. Men and Marriage was a re-titling of Gilder's Sexual Suicide, and the sequel to Naked Nomads.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#69

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

Interesting idea. I'd love to hear more about the birth rate numbers historically. I wasn't aware that any large societies experienced sub-replacement fertility levels until the late 20th century, which are typically attributed to the empowerment of women (education, entering workforce, legal equality, etc.), huge reduction in infant mortality, and strong economies/social safety nets.

[deleted]

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#70
post #5

[deleted]

Maybe the Philippines and Indonesia don't represent most of Asia, but illegitimacy has become a very obvious problem in the last decade there. The only reason divorce is not more common is because an annulment in the Philippines represents an astronomically prohibitive barrier for most citizens.

Divorce and annulment are not the same things in legal terms. Filipino law does not provide for divorce. I'd also suggest that legalities are hardly "the only reason" divorce isn't more prevalent. As the OP suggests, tradition, societal expectations, and welfare have a lot to do with it as well.
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