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Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

economist.com

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Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#51

Post by sliverstorm »

burgerbrain wrote: post #25
sliverstorm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not marriage as an institution is biased against males or females (honestly, it seems to be biased against both) I am always astounded by people who see no value whatsoever in marriage. America is practically founded on capitalism. How can you understand specialization & its benefits, and not see how marriage (well, used to) makes use of it? Yes, if marriage was just about pretending "True Love is real, an…

You can "handle things as a team" without bringing into bring into the equation the full force of a modern judiciary system and a stone-age property rights system.

The judiciary system and stone-age property system instill a certain permanence. It is much harder to give everything you've got when the other party can up and walk away whenever they please. Maybe in modern times we have better solutions than a modern judiciary system, but the system is the way it is for a reason.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#52

Post by sliverstorm »

lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

I actually really agree with you. But- I don't think Japan can re-militarize without essentially declaring war on America. Part of the treaty we set up at the end of WWII and all.

Wait... Maybe that means the reason they are declining is because we neutered them...?

P.S. I suspect the reason your theory has not been explored much in public writings is because it has an implied support of continued military activity, funding and dominance, which is a very unpopular position in the US today. Ironically, probably because we reside exactly in the part of your described cycle corresponding with military decline!

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#53

Post by lionhearted »

sliverstorm wrote: post #52
lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

I actually really agree with you. But- I don't think Japan can re-militarize without essentially declaring war on America. Part of the treaty we set up at the end of WWII and all. Wait... Maybe that means the reason they are declining is because we neutered them...? P.S. I suspect the reason your theory has not been explored much in public writings is because it has an implied support of continued military activity,…

> I don't think they can re-militarize without declaring war on America. Part of the treaty we set up at the end of WWII and all.

I think things have sufficiently changed since the 1940's that re-militarizing could happen without too much hostility, given good diplomacy with USA and China.

I actually think America would like another friendly military power in the Pacific.

It might lead to diplomatic tension, but there's like a 0% chance it'd lead to a declaration of war. They've got their hands way, way too full elsewhere.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#54

Post by steveF »

lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

History always repeats itself. If you know about the history of ancient China, your theory makes sense to some extent. Smart rulers could have the country in his (and his offspring's) control for more than 300 years. Bad ones could merely last for 100 years.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#55

Post by cageface »

lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

Oswald Spengler made a similar argument in 1918:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#56

Post by pyre »

sliverstorm wrote: post #42
whyenot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please cite your sources

This is one of those things teetering on the edge of "public knowledge". I have never met a single person who believes women receive the short end of the stick in divorce. In fact the only complaint from the women's end of things I've ever heard is '50% of his income is not enough'. It is of course anecdotal, but as best I can tell, it is anecdotal evidence that is shared by every person in America- aka, 'public know…

I won't base too much too heavily on it. The idea that blacks were sub-human was once "public knowledge" because everyone had an anecdote about a black person doing something stupid.

It should be stated that:

* 'Common sense' is not necessarily common.

* 'Public knowledge' doesn't always match up to reality and can often be influenced by social biases (i.e. you may only remember the cases of a man getting the shaft in a divorce, but easily forget the ones where he makes out like a bandit).

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#57

Post by rphlx »

lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

A great point, but not very controversial. Mainstream historians often propose that the USA's late 20th century economic, technical, and military prowess was a direct result of WWII.

As far as Japan goes - IMO their population is too old to solve the problem on their own. No matter how much propaganda you feed them, 50 year old women cannot have 4 kids.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#58

Post by gamble »

A friend of mine has lived in Japan teaching one-on-one English lessons for a number of years. A good chunk of his customers are recently married women. Their husbands don't want them to work, but with nothing to do at home they end up taking English lessons out of a desperate need to find something mentally stimulating to pass the hours.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#59

Post by bobo888 »

lionhearted wrote: post #44

I have a theory that I haven't found expounded before. It came from a combination of travel through 60+ countries, living and working and interacting with local people on a pretty intimate level sometimes, and study of lots of history. It's going to be controversial and maybe even shocking, so brace yourself for a moment before reacting please. I think peaceful societies self-destruct. With a few notable exceptions t…

On the other hand, considering that humans are on top of the food chain, maybe what you describe is a good thing (and we have it in our genes):

Population can not grow forever on a planet with a limited amount of resorces. So people either stop having children, or begin killing each other.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#60

Post by CamperBob »

lionhearted wrote: post #53
sliverstorm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually really agree with you. But- I don't think Japan can re-militarize without essentially declaring war on America. Part of the treaty we set up at the end of WWII and all. Wait... Maybe that means the reason they are declining is because we neutered them...? P.S. I suspect the reason your theory has not been explored much in public writings is because it has an implied support of continued military activity,…

> I don't think they can re-militarize without declaring war on America. Part of the treaty we set up at the end of WWII and all. I think things have sufficiently changed since the 1940's that re-militarizing could happen without too much hostility, given good diplomacy with USA and China. I actually think America would like another friendly military power in the Pacific. It might lead to diplomatic tension, but ther…

What are they going to do with a military? Why not just go through Tokyo with a baseball bat and break as many windows as possible? That'll put people to work without risking the peace.

I don't disagree with your thesis that peaceful societies tend to amuse themselves to death, but I don't see how military spending is a magical way out of that trap, unless you go looking for trouble.

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