Get started making music • Hacker News Board

Re: Get started making music

#81

Post by iainctduncan » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 3:58 PM UTC

Whether you like Ableton Live or not relative to other options is a matter of preference, but regardless, the folks who run Ableton are pretty cool:

- run by real musicians who play shows, it came out of a scratched personal itch

- so far, good new owners of Cycling 74, the bug squash numbers in the last couple of releases were stellar

- totally hacker friendly, they know people release disassembled Python code for control surfaces, and basically said "we can't support individual users doing this, but we know it's out there and won't do anything to stop it" (this was what actually got me on the bus!)

- really good educational outreach initiatives, and they give away a very capable light version for peanuts (or free with many controllers)

I find their prices high, all things considered, but am happy to be a long time customer, and as a serious musician musician (university educated, etc.), I think it's great that it has become such a gateway to appreciation of instrumental music by making music creation a more accessible hobby.

And the fact that I can script the heck out of such a full featured commercial product in Scheme by writing a Max/MSP external is fantastic (plug, I wrote Scheme For Max, which allows you to run lisp in your Ableton...)

Re: Get started making music

#82

Post by iainctduncan » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

petecooper wrote: post #80

This is a nitpick. For clarity: the company/vendor is Ableton, their flagship product is Live. Ableton Live is its full name. Ableton Live. Compare Apple Logic Pro, Steinberg Cubase, Image Line FL Studio, and so on. Respectfully, please try not to refer to the product as Ableton, e.g. "I made […] in Ableton". It was done in Ableton Live, or just Live in a pinch. (This used to really wind me up back in the old days, b…

Yeah well, that's what they get for choosing a bad name. They can wear that one. (I love the product and use it every day, but come on, "Live"??? no wonder everyone calls it "Ableton")

Re: Get started making music

#83

Post by ushakov » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

iainctduncan wrote: post #81

Whether you like Ableton Live or not relative to other options is a matter of preference, but regardless, the folks who run Ableton are pretty cool: - run by real musicians who play shows, it came out of a scratched personal itch - so far, good new owners of Cycling 74, the bug squash numbers in the last couple of releases were stellar - totally hacker friendly, they know people release disassembled Python code for c…

I think it’s also important to mention that Max costs $399 extra

Re: Get started making music

#84

Post by kvz » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

jarl-ragnar wrote: post #36

Ableton was one of my Lockdown amusements last year. A few weeks playing around with it resulted in this https://youtu.be/I3XrZOw8ZJA

This is very inspiring. Sounds so great! Would love to see a video about your process, including the failures and dead ends that you must have also hit in these weeks.

Re: Get started making music

#85

Post by yobbo » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

To anyone who thinks "it is easy", try this experiment: recreate a popular song (+100M views on YT for example) in some DAW. (the songs are produced in similar DAWs.) You won't be able to recreate the vocals, but you should be able to recreate the backing track almost identically. Put the original in right ear, your version in the left ear, and iterate until switching between versions sounds identical.

Over 100s of hours, this will train you ears, and you will appreciate the production quality of today's pop music.

This just covers the production and mixing, not the writing. Catchy pop songs sound deceivingly simple, which is the point and why they are so difficult to write.

Re: Get started making music

#86

Post by iainctduncan » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

ushakov wrote: post #83

iainctduncan wrote: post #81

Whether you like Ableton Live or not relative to other options is a matter of preference, but regardless, the folks who run Ableton are pretty cool: - run by real musicians who play shows, it came out of a scratched personal itch - so far, good new owners of Cycling 74, the bug squash numbers in the last couple of releases were stellar - totally hacker friendly, they know people release disassembled Python code for c…

I think it’s also important to mention that Max costs $399 extra

Correction, Max for Live costs $200 extra. Ableton Suite costs more, as does owning both standalone Max and Max for Live, but you do not need the $400 Max to script Live with Max, you just need Max for Live. And given how much it brings to the table and how many community and built in devices you get for that, I would argue it's very reasonable compared to other pro audio software. (Mind you, not incredible like Reaper, Valhalla DSP or Klanghelm's prices, but very fair compared to many others)

Re: Get started making music

#87

Post by ushakov » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

iainctduncan wrote: post #86

ushakov wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s also important to mention that Max costs $399 extra

Correction, Max for Live costs $200 extra. Ableton Suite costs more, as does owning both standalone Max and Max for Live, but you do not need the $400 Max to script Live with Max, you just need Max for Live. And given how much it brings to the table and how many community and built in devices you get for that, I would argue it's very reasonable compared to other pro audio software. (Mind you, not incredible like Reap…

yeah i agree with that, but i think Ableton prices are still bit ridiculous given they make a new version every year or so

Re: Get started making music

#88

Post by petecooper » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

iainctduncan wrote: post #82

petecooper wrote: post #80

This is a nitpick. For clarity: the company/vendor is Ableton, their flagship product is Live. Ableton Live is its full name. Ableton Live. Compare Apple Logic Pro, Steinberg Cubase, Image Line FL Studio, and so on. Respectfully, please try not to refer to the product as Ableton, e.g. "I made […] in Ableton". It was done in Ableton Live, or just Live in a pinch. (This used to really wind me up back in the old days, b…

Yeah well, that's what they get for choosing a bad name. They can wear that one. (I love the product and use it every day, but come on, "Live"??? no wonder everyone calls it "Ableton")

>but come on, "Live"??? no wonder everyone calls it "Ableton"

I did say it was a nitpick. Besides, before it was a DAW it was aimed squarely at live performance, hence the name.

Re: Get started making music

#89

Post by analog31 » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

yobbo wrote: post #85

To anyone who thinks "it is easy", try this experiment: recreate a popular song (+100M views on YT for example) in some DAW. (the songs are produced in similar DAWs.) You won't be able to recreate the vocals, but you should be able to recreate the backing track almost identically. Put the original in right ear, your version in the left ear, and iterate until switching between versions sounds identical. Over 100s of h…

There's a long interview with Rick Beato and Pat Metheny. My opinion is that among "younger" jazz musicians, Metheny has a rare gift for writing catchy melodies. He can write melodies that sound like folk songs, or like the most advanced deep jazz tunes, or both at the same time, pretty much on demand.

He said nobody teaches how to do this. You can study composition and arrangement, but they won't teach you how to create a melody. I don't know if he was implying that it can't be taught. But it's certainly valuable.

I know someone who wrote tunes on speculation, and one of his melodies was chosen as the year's jingle for a major brand. It made him enough money to pay cash for a house. Of course this was many years ago.

Re: Get started making music

#90

Post by nickpeterson » Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

I wish there was something like the teenage engineering op-1 but aimed at children (100-200 dollar range). I really feel like my kids would love this stuff but I know nothing about them. I though maybe iPad apps but they lack the physical knob and button feedback that something like an op-1 has.