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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

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Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#361

Post by stainforth »

throwaway2331 wrote: post #265
stainforth wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm a little confused by your answer - are peptides nootropics or sensation-type experiences? I guess I perceive nootropics as like "become smarter" or "having better recall" but this answer makes it seem like a recreational time bound physical experience? I also could see how the mental and physical have blurred boundaries.

I'm nodding off right now, so my verbal fluency is off. I think I was trying to make an analogy on how their effects differ, not on how their effects are. For example, with eating weed, you get bodily sensations, and so its effects are more on your body, i.e. physical; while with smoking weed, the "sensations" are more in your head, and mental. Likewise, with injecting NASA, the effects seem to be spread around your…

Are there short and long term benefits as far as memory and what not?

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#362

Post by goatsi »

crate_barre wrote: post #308
goatsi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methylphenidate is a non amphetamine derivatived stimulant, and is widely used for ADHD treatment.

Have you ever taken Ritalin? I’ve taken it along with XR version of Concerta. I can paste the wiki stuff about how it’s essentially similar to Meth, but I get it, it hurts peoples feelings. Look, you can’t bullshit someone that’s been on this stuff, it’s a serious drug.

>I can paste the wiki stuff about how it’s essentially similar to Meth

Yes, drugs that get classified as stimulants due to their physiological effects will have some similar effects. Different mechanism of action though, and not derived from amphetamine.

>it’s a serious drug.

Yes, as opposed to all the light and fluffy drugs.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#363

Post by eru »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #348
eru wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses. I believe the former. People like taking drugs after all. But what makes you think the latter is likely? (Anecdotally, from what I can tell American teenagers seems more likely to bing drink hard spirits than German teenagers who can legally enjoy a pint at the local pub.)

Only if they are over sixteen. Same for buying at the supermarket, gas station, or such. No sale without verification of legal ID. Of course there are ways around that, but it isn't that easy anymore.

Yes. I meant above 16 year olds. Though if you are with your parents, you can drink from age zero, if they let you.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#364

Post by hilbert42 »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #355
hilbert42 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If some of the illicit processing has reached a level of sufficient sophistication to enable removal of the l-enantiomer then I wonder how they go about it. Anyone know? As this article shows, there's any number of ways of making MA but separating out it's racemic mixtures has always been considered hard for backyard-ers. If this is now commonplace then it does seem to represent a somewhat of a seismic shift in the i…

I don't know precisely but I remember it's something like bubbling d-tartaric acid through the racemic methamphetamine mixture to separate out the d-methamphetamine. The overwhelming majority of US meth is cartel-sourced. They have massive superlabs and then transport kilos upon kilos across the border. That's how they have the sophistication to synthesize their own p2p, separate out the enantiomer, etc. It's the ine…

Yeah, perhaps I should have thought about that solution before I asked the question it's sort of obvious when you think about it. Anyway, from yours and various comments from others, the consensus is that the d-tartaric acid method is the most likely approach. (That got me thinking, I've some supermarket tartaric in my kitchen with the herb containers. Until now I've not given much thought to its stereochemistry, but this story has almost got me enthusiastic enough to check whether it's chiral or meso. Polarizing filters off my camera ought to do the trick.)

Until this article, I suppose I'd had a rather naive view about such matters which I gleaned years ago (can't remember from where), that was that with any drug (or any other chemical for that matter) that had 100% 'd' or 'l' enantiomers then it had to be manufactured in (come from) a controlled industrial process due to the complexities of separation.

The trouble is I've only had a peripheral interest in the matter so I'm not up to date. Until this story I've been stuck with the old orthodoxy, which was that if law enforcement found 50/50% racemic mixtures then they had to come from illegal sources. Clearly, that's no longer the case, and it seems that it's been so for sometime, especially so with drugs made from pharmacy-grade precursors, pseudoephedrine, etc. - the pharmaceutical industry having done the hard work.

It also hadn't really dawned on me that mega cartels were employing professional chemists but it actually makes much sense given the mega dollars involved (I'd always assumed there were maverick and eccentric chemists around but never envisioned an illicit lab with a corporate structure run like a normal commercial chemical company).

Also, one could be forgiven for having missed the fact because for decades, news reports have painted a constant image about the dangers of street drugs due to their variable nature (not to mention their adulteration - being mixed and cut with dangerous substances in the midstream distribution chain). Coupled with the all-too-frequent TV images of makeshift labs in jungles with buckets of chemicals littered about everywhere one wonders how they produced drugs with any reasonable degree of purity at all. The last thing on my mind would have been that they'd have had the expertise or facilities to separate racemic mixtures. Clearly this preconceived notion is now outdated.

HN comments here have updated my thinking, they're very helpful and informative at times.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#365

Post by throwaway2331 »

stainforth wrote: post #361
throwaway2331 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm nodding off right now, so my verbal fluency is off. I think I was trying to make an analogy on how their effects differ, not on how their effects are. For example, with eating weed, you get bodily sensations, and so its effects are more on your body, i.e. physical; while with smoking weed, the "sensations" are more in your head, and mental. Likewise, with injecting NASA, the effects seem to be spread around your…

Are there short and long term benefits as far as memory and what not?

Uncertain. Likely nothing noticeable.

Only thing in the vein has been a better ability to plan, reason about in my head, and make use of visualization to reason about problems (and their solutions).

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#366

Post by MikeBVaughn »

stcredzero wrote: post #357
MikeBVaughn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata: I'm not on meth and I strongly prefer an entire tent to a partial tent.

But, are you so poor, that it would constitute a significant expense?

I mean, given the choice of two explanatory models:

1.) Even in cases of extreme poverty, people will put in significant effort and sacrifice to secure some degree of privacy, because it's a basic human desire (a desire I've seen in nearly every person I've ever met.)

2.) ULTRA-METH PSYCHOSIS

I'm strongly inclined to favor 1 over 2 until I see some very, very compelling evidence otherwise.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#367

Post by R0b0t1 »

BizarroLand wrote: post #179
R0b0t1 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they separate the culture link from a potential genetic link? Maybe the association exists in a culture because it is a real effect, it just differs between groups.

I've heard (purely anecdotal) rumors that North Korea basically runs on Meth. I'm not sure if that is true but I suppose it would explain a lot.

Not sure how this is related to my comment...?

Alcohol effects some subgroups (like Asians) differently so why not have more complex behaviors as genetic as well?

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#368

Post by krageon »

xyzzyz wrote: post #351
krageon wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't provide solid sources because they don't exist. Their claims are untrue in the spirit in which they were posted: That the results of the policy were uniformly harmful.

Will you apologize to me for implying that I’m lying here about the ground data facts on drug use in Portugal, if I do provide the sources? Or are you just performatively asking me for sources, refusing to extend even a modicum of charity, just to disappear after I spend half an hour digging back up the government documents I remember seeing a few years ago, when I looked into this?

I have done this research already, which is why I can in good faith say that you are wrong and reality doesn't support what you say. I'll charitably offer that it is possible that I was wrong, and if you prove that I will absolutely apologise.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#369

Post by chucksta »

xyzzyz wrote: post #360
chucksta wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you finish reading it? >The Rev. Herbert Daughtry, a longtime pastor in New York, once was addicted to heroin and served time. He's convinced that black leaders who embraced the drug war did serious harm to the community, but says a lot of African-Americans were desperate for ways to make their neighborhoods safe again. "If you're the victim, then you don't want to hear anything about treatment, just, 'Get this g…

Yes, I did. The quote you gave supports what I said: that the black leaders pushed for War on Drugs, precisely to counteract the destructive effects of drugs on their communities. Rev. Herbert Daughtry might believe today that they were wrong to do so, and he might well be correct. This is not what I’m arguing against. I’m arguing against a blatant falsehood, that War on Drugs was purely a mean to disenfranchise blac…

Ah I misunderstood your point, I agree with you

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#370

Post by stcredzero »

MikeBVaughn wrote: post #366
stcredzero wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, are you so poor, that it would constitute a significant expense?

I mean, given the choice of two explanatory models: 1.) Even in cases of extreme poverty, people will put in significant effort and sacrifice to secure some degree of privacy, because it's a basic human desire (a desire I've seen in nearly every person I've ever met.) 2.) ULTRA-METH PSYCHOSIS I'm strongly inclined to favor 1 over 2 until I see some very, very compelling evidence otherwise.

1.) Even in cases of extreme poverty, people will put in significant effort and sacrifice to secure some degree of privacy, because it's a basic human desire

And yet, if you look at our actual history, the levels of privacy available to average and poor people were far, far less. In the middle ages, entire families shared the same bed, if they had a bed, or otherwise slept all huddled together. Even complete strangers in inns and other public accommodation would sleep huddled together at times.

Not to say that there was zero privacy. However, there was far less. Much of this was probably motivated by availability/economics.

Many modern claims of "basic human desire" turn out to be a "Flinstones" view of history. Many things are constant across time and cultures. However, there are also some factors which are vastly different.

2.) ULTRA-METH PSYCHOSIS

That's kind of straw-mann-ish there. No one is saying everyone homeless is in ultra-meth psychosis. But the large numbers of people so affected in varying degrees are going to skew the statistics of how many take the extra effort and expense to have their own tent.

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