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Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

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Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Give antibiotics for pneumonia" and "give antiparisitics for pneumonia" are slightly different scenarios, yes?

Well, as was pointed out elsewhere on this thread, 1) earlier this decade ivermectin was being studied for antiviral properties. 2) Azithromycin's use as a covid treatment seems to be controversial, even though a couple years ago it would have been considered a standard treatment for _viral_ pneumonia to combat the _possibility_ of bacterial infection.

> Azithromycin's use as a covid treatment seems to be controversial...

By itself? Or as part of the supposed protocol from HQC/zinc/zpak pushers?

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as was pointed out elsewhere on this thread, 1) earlier this decade ivermectin was being studied for antiviral properties. 2) Azithromycin's use as a covid treatment seems to be controversial, even though a couple years ago it would have been considered a standard treatment for _viral_ pneumonia to combat the _possibility_ of bacterial infection.

> Azithromycin's use as a covid treatment seems to be controversial... By itself? Or as part of the supposed protocol from HQC/zinc/zpak pushers?

Both in conjunction with HCQ and zinc, in conjunction with other drugs (like the antihistiamine treatment I linked to earlier), and by itself.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33465426/

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#93
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is how was it proven back then? There are a lot of people promoting ideas, some of which will eventually get clinical backing that they are correct. Prior to studies being done, how do we evaluate who is a quack and who is correct? There is a lot of harm promoting quack ideas during a pandemic. Based on reputation? Twitter followers? Their passion? I do not believe anyone censored research and scien…

>Prior to studies being done, how do we evaluate who is a quack and who is correct You allow the dialog to take place and make up your own mind. >I would argue that anyone who had a solution to Covid should rush to get it published in a reputable Any tool thats not a vaccine gets associated with Trump or the right wing and is dismissed. Its even stifled funding for anti-virals that give a 50% reduction in hospitaliza…

Here's an analogy originally from Pam Popper. You wouldn't go to a car dealership and buy the car that the dealer recommends. You study up on the models available and choose the one most appropriate for you. And even if you don't know much about the mechanics of cars, even how to change your oil, you probably do a pretty good job, at least better than choosing the car the dealer recommends. Yet the majority of people accept whatever treatment their doctor recommends without asking questions or doing any research on whether the treatment is appropriate. People can learn how to make independent medical decisions, just as they can learn how to buy a car for themselves.

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Prior to studies being done, how do we evaluate who is a quack and who is correct You allow the dialog to take place and make up your own mind. >I would argue that anyone who had a solution to Covid should rush to get it published in a reputable Any tool thats not a vaccine gets associated with Trump or the right wing and is dismissed. Its even stifled funding for anti-virals that give a 50% reduction in hospitaliza…

Here's an analogy originally from Pam Popper. You wouldn't go to a car dealership and buy the car that the dealer recommends. You study up on the models available and choose the one most appropriate for you. And even if you don't know much about the mechanics of cars, even how to change your oil, you probably do a pretty good job, at least better than choosing the car the dealer recommends. Yet the majority of people…

Buying a car factors too much personal preference in to be analogous to diagnosing a particular issue. I think a better analogy would be when you go to a shop to get your car fixed. Depending how obvious the problem is you may be given a single obvious course of action or be given a list of possible problems and a review of possible solutions. If it's severe enough you may be inclined to ask for a second opinion from another shop just to be sure but you don't default to questioning automotive repair practices because you go and google how a transmission works that week. Not because the first mechanic you see is always right but because there are multiple people that spend their lives trying to figure these things out available to you and your best bet is to always try to leverage them not try to become one of the alternative experts overnight.

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Prior to studies being done, how do we evaluate who is a quack and who is correct You allow the dialog to take place and make up your own mind. >I would argue that anyone who had a solution to Covid should rush to get it published in a reputable Any tool thats not a vaccine gets associated with Trump or the right wing and is dismissed. Its even stifled funding for anti-virals that give a 50% reduction in hospitaliza…

Here's an analogy originally from Pam Popper. You wouldn't go to a car dealership and buy the car that the dealer recommends. You study up on the models available and choose the one most appropriate for you. And even if you don't know much about the mechanics of cars, even how to change your oil, you probably do a pretty good job, at least better than choosing the car the dealer recommends. Yet the majority of people…

That's a terrible analogy. Within a general class of vehicles there are typically only a handful of available options. And competition means they're all pretty good. You're not going to go too far wrong buying, let's say, a Toyota RAV4 even if a Subaru Forester might be a better option.

And most consumers don't even bother to do much research before selecting a car. They buy the Toyota because they had one before and liked it, or their friend who knows about cars said it's reliable.

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American history is littered with medical salesmen touting miracle cures to desperate ill people. Would you prefer our modern communication mediums be saturated with their pitches or do we want to wait until there is a reasonable scientific consensus before unleashing re-engagement algorithms?

I want to see everyone's true face bright and clear so I don't lose my own ability to filter them accordingly. It's like, do you want the friends you meet at church to be actual Christians? Well good then, stop having a damned society where atheism is so taboo that the church aisles are filled with atheists terrified of the consequences of not showing up on Sunday morning. This is still a real serious issue in the bi…

Unfortunately the pandemic is a social/collective problem and given the systematic disinvestment in quality public education, your personal ability to filter disinformation is nowhere near universally applicable.

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#97
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you seriously think the government could have made us all lose weight in the last 18 months... they’ve been running anti obesity campaigns for decades and failing while obesity grows every year. BTW covid is plenty dangerous to non obese as well. The vaccine shot actually works well and is incredibly easy to use compared to a grueling year long weight loss and sustaining it for a lifetime, for most people.

Obesity is a critical risk factor. https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-c... https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-3742#f1-M203742 https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/07/21/bjsports-2021-...

Look at your cdc link and it proves my point. I never said obesity wasn’t a risk factor, just that covid is plenty dangerous to the non obese as well.

“ More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.6”

This is from your link - even if the government put everyone in concentration camps and forced them to lose weight, it would do nothing for the other 70%

Meanwhile vaccines are about 80-90% effective against hospitalization and death.

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you seriously think the government could have made us all lose weight in the last 18 months... they’ve been running anti obesity campaigns for decades and failing while obesity grows every year. BTW covid is plenty dangerous to non obese as well. The vaccine shot actually works well and is incredibly easy to use compared to a grueling year long weight loss and sustaining it for a lifetime, for most people.

if they have been running pro-vaccine campaigns, thats very welcome.. It is the coercion / loss of livelihood and other threats, that are getting people up in arms (figuratively, and who knows, someday in real life) Imagine if various establishments used a weight/health card where one is scored on some heuristic, and allowed access. Just look at intellectuals like Noam Chomsky's prescriptions on how to treat the unva…

> It is the coercion / loss of livelihood and other threats, that are getting people up in arms (figuratively, and who knows, someday in real life)

People were up in arms and fearmongering over the vaccine since 2020. This isn’t about coercion - there’s a reason the same people typically don’t get vaccinated themselves. If they believed in the effectiveness of the vaccine they’d be vaxxed themselves (like Republican Governors and Fox News tv hosts).

I personally know someone who thought the vaccine had a good chance of killing me and other acquaintances who took it, all because he read some random posts on the net.

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#99
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is how was it proven back then? There are a lot of people promoting ideas, some of which will eventually get clinical backing that they are correct. Prior to studies being done, how do we evaluate who is a quack and who is correct? There is a lot of harm promoting quack ideas during a pandemic. Based on reputation? Twitter followers? Their passion? I do not believe anyone censored research and scien…

>Prior to studies being done, how do we evaluate who is a quack and who is correct You allow the dialog to take place and make up your own mind. >I would argue that anyone who had a solution to Covid should rush to get it published in a reputable Any tool thats not a vaccine gets associated with Trump or the right wing and is dismissed. Its even stifled funding for anti-virals that give a 50% reduction in hospitaliza…

IMO most people are completely incapable of critically approaching new information 24/7 and so are susceptible to weighing incorrect and misleading information highly if they are repeatedly exposed to it. At the risk of being a heathen, I think information and discourse in public forums needs to be moderated and curated - the other option is to do what we do today and devalue people’s opinions based on our personal perception of the quality of their information, which is subjective. Any fears about censorship and control are a reflection of the ridiculous centralisation of the internet, and breaking up or socialising large platforms is the appropriate response.

Ultimately I think the expectation that platforms ought to facilitate and tolerate discussion of topics just because they are “ideas”, “suggestions”, “opinions” and not presented as fact is toxic. If you want to do actual research do it in the correct setting (not a public forum). And fortunately, that is where actual research is happening.

It is not some overarching plan by some godly G-man, you don’t see these drugs being promoted because there is ultimately no scientific proof of their effectiveness. If Moderna had the same attitude towards science and statistics as the people who are pushing “alternative” treatments, we would have had a COVID vaccine much sooner.

Re: Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of hospitalization for Covid

#100
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Prior to studies being done, how do we evaluate who is a quack and who is correct You allow the dialog to take place and make up your own mind. >I would argue that anyone who had a solution to Covid should rush to get it published in a reputable Any tool thats not a vaccine gets associated with Trump or the right wing and is dismissed. Its even stifled funding for anti-virals that give a 50% reduction in hospitaliza…

> You allow the dialog to take place and make up your own mind. Medicine is perhaps the field least amenable to this. It's so hard to figure out what drugs and therapies even work that full-time Ph.D and MD level experts in biology and medicine very often get things very wrong. Look at fat, cholesterol, sugar, and how certain foods like eggs have been classified as healthy or unhealthy multiple times. These people ar…

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