Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm • Hacker News Board

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#291

Post by randcraw » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #209

vmception wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dilemma. They could make the first floor have food courts and gyms, while having windows or simply not having a 97 year old billionaire donor dictate taste with zero input just because money. You are assuming a lot about whether the safety designs exist, or are adequate .

> You are assuming a lot about whether the safety designs exist, or are adequate. Uh, yes. Because there are laws governing how we can construct buildings in a safe way, and on the whole (c.f. the number of deaths in building fires over time) they work well. So I trust them. As far as the putative logic flaw, I don't see it. Everything is a tradeoff, even "because money". Saving money on the dorm means lower tuition,…

This design came from an amateur architect, someone who has never designed ANY building before and is surely clueless about safety laws and even basic physical structural limits. To imagine the design has seen anywhere sufficient review by others who DO know what they're doing is assuming a lot.

All this just to save $200/1500 (13%)? You can get a better discount than that at any retailer.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#292

Post by lbriner » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

fasteddie wrote: post #205

colinmhayes wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is how this shithole costs so much? 1.5 billion for 4,500 residents comes out to 333,333 per resident. It feels like they could probably build normal dorms for that price.

A new small apartment in San Francisco cannot be built for less than $800k these days, so coming in a $333k per resident is not too surprising to me in a similar high-cost city with a building with a ton of amenities.

An apartment for $800K is understandable. A small bedroom @ $333K is not.

If they already own the building, it is only construction costs whereas buying an apartment is possibly extortionate land or property prices from the current owner, which is purely demand-driven.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#293

Post by mindcrime » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #256

nescioquid wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former firefighter cautions we should be skeptical of the safety of this plan, and your rebuttal is "surely building codes mandate..."? A zero-evidence rebuttal concerning the safety of 4500 students.

I don’t find it unreasonable to assume that the building will comply with government fire safety regulations and that those regulations are at least somewhat adequate.

You might be surprised. Fire regulations are very much a local issue and there can be a lot of variance (although many local municipalities base their codes on standards put out by bodies like the NFPA, etc.).

There are quite frequently things that one might intuitively expect to be in the regs, that aren't. Requirements for sprinklers, for example. As surprising as it may seem, there are still lots of places where sprinklers are not required in many buildings.

I don't know the situation in Santa Barbara, but I did email their fire department earlier with an inquiry about this topic. Hoping to hear something back.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#294

Post by ciabattabread » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

noyeastguy wrote: post #182

Munger obviously cares for young people and education if you read or listen to him. I feel like the people complaining about economical living conditions are going to turn around and propose erasing college debt, without ever addressing the cause. This is one way to make college more affordable and allow students a better chance of meeting people.

By that logic, we should all be living in prison cells.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#295

Post by loeg » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #100

Ekaros wrote: post #44

Could be acceptable for few years if rent was extremely cheap. There is lot to trade if living like this would cost less than a hundred a month.

Problem is: those "cells" cost ~$300,000 each. Assuming a break-even at 10 years, that's $2,500/month - more than my mortgage for a 2400 sq ft home on .75 acres with a small forest. At $100/mo, would take 250 years to pay off.

Is your mortgage in Santa Barbara?

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#296

Post by pphysch » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

vladharbuz wrote: post #238

pphysch wrote: post #221

Sad that economical living spaces are considered so radical on HN. I lived in a small dorm with a crappy roommate (actual roommate, not flatmate). So I didn't spend any unnecessary time in my room outside of sleeping. I hung out at the library, cafeteria, etc and went to random talks/activities on campus (there are a lot of them on a big campus). No windows? Sunlight alarms exist. They're great. Modern AC is also gre…

The point is not that extremely small living spaces, which you flatteringly describe as “economical”, are intrinsically bad. The issue here is the imbalance of power. I can say with near certainty that very few of the students who would be living in this space would opt for such a layout (extremely small rooms, no windows). Obviously, the students have absolutely no say in the matter, and neither does the university…

What an incredibly dramatic comment. Are you being serious right now? HN is not remotely representative of the general population, much less undergraduate student population.

And most students aren't going to let their anti-authoritarian angst/daddy issues get in the way of an easy commute and good night's sleep.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#297

Post by EForEndeavour » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

k8si wrote: post #164

giarc wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As point out elsewhere, 2 entrances doesn't mean 2 egress points. There are likely lots of one way doors out of the building.

Oh that sounds so great. I walk out the door to class, realize I forgot a pen, then get to take a 15 minute walk all the around the building just to get back up to my room. Wonderful

A fringe benefit of the design is that it applies behavioural and evolutionary pressure against forgetfulness and other cognitive flaws.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#298

Post by PeterisP » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

falcor84 wrote: post #186

gt565k wrote: post #28

Glad he had the balls to step down and call them out. The other committee members and people in charge of the project should be embarrassed as they failed to represent the best needs of the university and its students. Windowless dorms, crazy 97 year old billionaire amateur architect and a bunch of corrupt university staff and committee members who would do anything to save a few bucks. What could go wrong? Humanity…

Not to dispute any of your arguments, I'm really surprised at your referring to the consideration of whether to accept a gift of $200M as "save a few bucks".

If someone is donating 15% of project costs but with strings attached that make the project more than 15% worse (which arguably might be the case here), then that's not a good deal and should be rejected.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#299

Post by oefrha » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

> The idea was conceived by 97-year-old billionaire-investor turned amateur-architect Charles Munger, who donated $200 million toward the project with the condition that his blueprints be followed exactly.

Huh, just so happens Munger Graduate Residence is one of the nicest residences, or maybe the nicest residence at Stanford (or at least was when I was there).

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#300

Post by mindcrime » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #271

mindcrime wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History suggests that the primary ingress/egress points are the only ones worth considering. Emergency doors have a nagging tendency to be obstructed, hidden, barricaded or even flat-out locked even when they're not allowed to be. And that's assuming people will know where they are. When they're half-drunk, half-stoned, half-asleep, and wandering around in a smoke filled corridor at 2:00 am.

Most US downtown skyscrapers generally have the one main entrance and then a fair amount of secondary stairwell exits as well. Some of those are even residential buildings.

Indeed. The "devil is in the details" though. You can "get away with", for example, fewer entrances/exits if you compensate by requiring fire proof construction, sprinklers & standpipes, fire rated interior partition doors, etc.

We don't know yet how many (if any) of those things will apply to Munger Hall. I have reached out to SBFire to ask some of these questions, and hope to hear back from them.