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Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

economist.com

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Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#341

Post by lotsofpulp »

jltsiren wrote: post #150
fukpaywalls2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Salaries are going to drop in the "rich world", and it's not just because people are now fleeing places like SF/SV to lower cost of living areas." People have been saying this since the 1990's

And they were right. Mid-income people in the rich world were the losers of globalization. There are fewer jobs now where you can buy a house and support a family by working 40 hours/week. Especially for those with no specialized skills. The same may hit some highly-paid professionals in the future. If tech keeps making things easier while the rest of the world grows wealthier and more competitive, they may find that…

> Those at the top are safe, but the top is slowly getting narrower.

This has been happening for decades. It is an inherent property of technology AIG automation driving down marginal costs and increasing yields, all benefiting owners of capital or those who have the ability to help automate.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#342

Post by bregma »

joelbluminator wrote: post #303
ramphastidae wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying this for decades but it hasn’t come true. Remote work can’t make up for the significant challenges caused by differences in time zone and culture.

What's stopping SV startups from hiring in Argentina/Brazil/Mexico ? Similar time zone...and that's a pool of hundreds of millions of people.

Brazil is +5h from California. That's the same as the difference between New York and London. Workable for a couple of hours out of every day, but hardly "similar timezones".

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#343

Post by brsg »

I think there's 2 opposing forces that will affect "us" (rich country engineers) over the coming decade.

1) An absolutely insatiable demand for software as _everything_ needs to be remote friendly and digital.

2) An equally insatiable demand to offshore engineering talent for a fraction of the cost.

I'm not sure which will have a greater effect. Technically, if the demand for software grows faster than the world's ability to educate developers, salaries might actually grow. However, there's a real chance the gold rush of super high California $300k+ software salaries is coming to an end.

Personally, I'm seeing moving into management as more attractive everytime I see an article posted here about remote work. People here are understandably dismissive of this, but it's happened before in a lot of industries.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#344

Post by macintux »

fendy3002 wrote: post #315
Cederfjard wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really know why, but now I’ve found this to be less effective than IRL for some reason. Like I have to make more of an effort to be properly understood, and come away less certain that we’re on the same page (and that we have to follow up more often because there were indeed misunderstandings). At least I experience this with some people, less so with others. Not sure if this is due to something I lack, or if…

I've encountered this and I thought of some reason: - it's easier to be distracted - it's harder to read gestures and expressions, worse with group meeting - with normal keyboard and mouch / touchpad even touchscreen, it's harder to sketch - while small, there is latency and it can be distracting enough IMO it's easier if the communication is one way at a time, not both at the same time.

The bandwidth, latency, and resolution of an analog whiteboard beats the pants off anything digital.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#345

Post by xtracto »

paulus_magnus2 wrote: post #310
eru wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hiring remote workers directly would greatly speed up the process of salary equalisation (adjusted for COL). What makes you think that this adjustments for cost of living would persist? Competitive pressures are towards paying for productivity, not for cost of living. > In the end after some 1-2 decades we'd wake up in much flatter world with perhaps reasons to not impose limits on labour mobility across borders. I…

> What makes you think that this adjustments for cost of living would persist? Competitive pressures are towards paying for productivity, not for cost of living. I think there is not a lot of competitive pressure, if there was, the salaries in Europe and Canada would already match the US ones. It's another thing that the COL is quickly converging, especially in big cities. Goods already cost pretty much the same (adj…

Developer salaries have actually rised here in Mexico in the last 12/18 months. A recruiter mentioned to me a 30% increase all across the board. And I know Mexican Tech Leads who are making 90k USD . I myself got as hefty increase (doubled my salary) . All working here in Mexico for US companies.

Its slowly but surely happening.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#346

Post by Cederfjard »

wingkongex wrote: post #339

I work IT, fully remote since March 2020. At first, I was actually against the idea as I had never worked from home full-time before. Went back to the office for the first time last month to meet a new exec. I could not believe how much more distracted I felt back in the office, and that experience is what 100% sold me on remote work. It is quite easy to forget just how much recreational conversation happens in an op…

What’s your home setup like? Do you have an office dedicated to work?

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#347

Post by xtracto »

joelbluminator wrote: post #303
ramphastidae wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying this for decades but it hasn’t come true. Remote work can’t make up for the significant challenges caused by differences in time zone and culture.

What's stopping SV startups from hiring in Argentina/Brazil/Mexico ? Similar time zone...and that's a pool of hundreds of millions of people.

Nothing. It's happening. I've seen it more and more here in Mexico. It's just that a lot of people dont know about it.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#348

Post by jalfresi »

abyssin wrote: post #258
ouid wrote: post #194

What I find offensive is the notion that workers consider a 10-25% increase in hours as commensurate with a 5% pay cut. End commuting. It's unpaid labor.

If you consider commuting as labour, you’re creating an incentive for many workers to increase the distance between where they work and where they live. Something comparable has happened in Belgium with the system of company cars. A car with fuel card is considered as a standard part of the salary package, which is advantageous from a fiscal perspective. What you get is more traffic, pollution, urban sprawl and more…

"you’re creating an incentive for many workers to increase the distance between where they work and where they live"

Having commuted for many many years, I literally cannot fathom how this line of thinking is even considered a reasonable counter. Do some poeple get to commute through a utopic wonderland? Have I been living/working in the wrong places all these years?

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#349

Post by evenhovercraft »

Very grateful that my employer has committed to remaining flexible with remote work. Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. Full time remote has done wonders for my health - instead of a 2 hour commute I get to exercise. Instead of coming home stressed, annoyed, and sitting in front of the TV, I go outside for a solid hour+ after I close my laptop. I travel more liberally now that I don’t have to take time off to do so. My quality of life has never been better, and my gratefulness translates into feelings of loyalty towards my employer. Why would I quit if I’m treated well and have a nice work life balance? Why would I risk this situation by slacking off when I am on the clock?

Prior to the remote shift, I was unhappy and I didn’t even realize. No exercise, no passion outside of work. All my energy went into my 10+ hour day (when you consider the commute).

Since then I’ve lost 30lbs, become enamored with new sports and hobbies, and my social life outside of work exists again. I feel more “alive” than I have in a decade.

I’ll never work for a company that doesn’t allow me that flexibility for the rest of my career, as long as I can help it. Companies that want access to good talent would be wise to follow this example.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#350

Post by kwertyoowiyop »

> Economists have less insight into why remote workers might be more productive. One possibility is that they can more easily focus on tasks than in an office, where the temptation to gossip with a co-worker looms large.

Wow, how out of touch and patronizing is this? How about, it’s hard to concentrate in these cheap open-plan offices where you have to listen to every other conversation in the vicinity?

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