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Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

economist.com

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Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#111

Post by pronlover723 »

icelancer wrote: post #46
EMM_386 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yep. I've said it many times here and basically anywhere I can: Clamoring for remote-only work, maximum-introvert, never fly somewhere, don't value in-person communication/meetings/etc is a dangerous game to be playing. What's interesting is that I flew in for a meeting with my company recently, the first I've had since I've been hired. This took hours upon hours of my time. Time I could have spent working. We spen…

>> This took hours upon hours of my time. Time I could have spent working. What engineers and people on this site seem to not grasp is that "working" is not a strict definition that maps to "writing code" to management, business operations, marketing, sales... basically every non-engineering department. If that concept starts to take root in the mind, then it becomes a bit more clear why people like the office. Engin…

That's what the metaverse is for, or at least that seems to be what Meta is banking on.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#112

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

logosmonkey wrote: post #61
icelancer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We are also beginning to compete globally, far more than ever before with the ease of remote work. Qualified engineers can be found for 1/10th of the price with "near shore" companies in the "rich world". Yep. I've said it many times here and basically anywhere I can: Clamoring for remote-only work, maximum-introvert, never fly somewhere, don't value in-person communication/meetings/etc is a dangerous game to be p…

Honestly, I doubt much will be considerably different for most US based companies. In SV firms, maybe, but in corporate America it will be years before they would even consider another run at mass off shoring. Lots of corporations are still dealing with the fall out of the off shore/consultant boom of the early to mid 00s.

Group video chat makes an enormous difference. And most of the early to mid 00s offshoring was to India, perhaps also places like Russia or China, where the time difference to US can make things exceedingly painful. Now, though, I've worked with many super talented developers in Central and South America where the time difference is minimal.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#113

Post by wyclif »

Raidion wrote: post #23
jimbob45 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a “near shore” company?

For US, it's south America. Same time zone, cheaper labor costs.

Specifically Chile or Peru, judging from where some of my friends in the industry are living now.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#114

Post by bob1029 »

EMM_386 wrote: post #19

Everyone should keep in mind that water seeks its own level. And think of this on a global scale. I've been working remotely for almost a decade as a senior software engineer. Now, post-Covid, almost everyone realizes they can do the same. Salaries are going to drop in the "rich world", and it's not just because people are now fleeing places like SF/SV to lower cost of living areas. We are also beginning to compete g…

> We are also beginning to compete globally, far more than ever before with the ease of remote work. Qualified engineers can be found for 1/10th of the price with "near shore" companies in the "rich world".

Sounds familiar... I think you still get what you pay for.

There are certainly a lot of products where it doesn't matter at all, but in other areas you really need to be careful with what you send to the contractor and what you do in-house.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#115

Post by tw04 »

EMM_386 wrote: post #19

Everyone should keep in mind that water seeks its own level. And think of this on a global scale. I've been working remotely for almost a decade as a senior software engineer. Now, post-Covid, almost everyone realizes they can do the same. Salaries are going to drop in the "rich world", and it's not just because people are now fleeing places like SF/SV to lower cost of living areas. We are also beginning to compete g…

> The money may start flowing from the "rich world" to the "poor world" soon, no need for H1B visas or anything else. The gold rush days may be over.

You seem to believe there are no political dynamics to this situation. On a small scale, sure. On a large scale I think you’ll find the political stability that executives in the US have come to rely on will quickly disappear. The 2016 elections were already a reflection of the general populace growing tired of offshoring jobs. When that hits the middle and upper middle class as well, shit will hit the fan globally.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#116

Post by tragictrash »

notadoc wrote: post #39
EMM_386 wrote: post #19

Everyone should keep in mind that water seeks its own level. And think of this on a global scale. I've been working remotely for almost a decade as a senior software engineer. Now, post-Covid, almost everyone realizes they can do the same. Salaries are going to drop in the "rich world", and it's not just because people are now fleeing places like SF/SV to lower cost of living areas. We are also beginning to compete g…

Yes, people who don't see this coming are in for a potentially rude awakening. The US tech worker is about to get NAFTA'd.

What is getting NAFTA'd?

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#117

Post by hanniabu »

robjan wrote: post #92
deegles wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that objectively true or do you feel it’s true? Not being snarky, but I see this viewpoint a lot and it’s never backed up with numbers. Companies are quick to cite science when sending people to WFH, but the rigor is not there when claims are made about how being in an office makes for a more effective workforce.

Anecdata, I know, but I've yet to find a solution as good as a whiteboard for brainstorming ideas / events / architecture collaboratively.

I agree, it's vastly more difficult to do it over call or video due to the talking over each other. Ideally that'll never happen, but it's just natural in conversations and it really kills the flow.

However, I still think we've achieved a "good enough" state and the cons are no longer enough to stop WFH.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#118

Post by rsj_hn »

Raidion wrote: post #23
jimbob45 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a “near shore” company?

For US, it's south America. Same time zone, cheaper labor costs.

Interesting. I've been thinking about spending some time in Chile -- what is the English situation in Chile or Peru?

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#119

Post by _fat_santa »

EMM_386 wrote: post #19

Everyone should keep in mind that water seeks its own level. And think of this on a global scale. I've been working remotely for almost a decade as a senior software engineer. Now, post-Covid, almost everyone realizes they can do the same. Salaries are going to drop in the "rich world", and it's not just because people are now fleeing places like SF/SV to lower cost of living areas. We are also beginning to compete g…

Like others have said, this story has been repeated numerous times in some variation in the past and has never panned out.

I think the reason is that many people conflate "remote" with "asynchronous". Having a company go fully remote is one thing, having a company move to a culture of asynchronous work is something completely different.

Some tech companies will be able to do this, but the problems really arise for companies that have to keep "business hours" here in the US. Take a major chain store, a healthcare company, a software provider.

These businesses have to balance and on-shore workforce with an off-shore workforce. There will be people that work on the ground, and they will obviously have to be on-shore, so will upper management most likely. What about the other layers in the organization. From a high level it sounds simple but when you dive down into which teams support which teams and report to which managers and yada yada yada, where you draw the line all of a sudden becomes much harder and fuzzier.

Most companies that will do what you are talking about have already done so. The reason the water hasn't leveled off more to other parts of the world like you are saying is either due to existing business constraints or risk aversion to possible constraints an offshore team may impose.

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