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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

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Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#131

Post by edgyquant »

arcticfox wrote: post #30
pessimizer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "new meth" thing seems like a PR push by government contractors. It's redolent of the UK "skunk" scare (it's not the pot you used to smoke, mommies and daddies - it's special pot that will definitely make your children think they can fly and jump out of windows, and become prostitutes to pay for more.)

What makes you say that? I'm not 100% sold on it yet, but my city has always been "welcoming" to homeless folks and it has never been a huge problem. Now it looks like an actual zombie apocalypse out there in some parts, and there are periodically meth busts of hundreds of pounds in just random apartments, not even kingpin types. Combined with the anecdotal evidence from social workers, there's a whole lot of smoke o…

Yes because what people are taking now is super pure and potent where before what was common was “dirty” meth.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#132

Post by gpcr1949 »

cyounkins wrote: post #125

Can anyone comment on how producers could be isolating the the 'd' enantiomer? Are they using enzymes? Steve Mould has a great video [1] on homochirality in nature and says, "Why are all the sugar molecules that you buy from the shops right-handed? ... If you were to make some sugar for yourself in a chemistry lab by mixing some chemicals together, you would get a 50/50 mix of left-handed sugar and right-handed sugar…

They are most likely using resolution via the Pope–Peachey Method. There was supporting evidence found in a laboratory in Guadalajara[0].

It is possible to do asymmetric reductive amination using enzymes but this is out of the scope of clandestine producers. Likewise a chemical and not enzymatic asymmetric reductive amination would be easy in a bench lab, probably to expensive and impractical in a clandestine setting.

[0] Joseph S. Bozenko, "Clandestine Enantiomeric Enrichment of d–Methamphetamine via Tartaric Acid Resolution", JCLIC, 2008, vol.3 (not publicly accessible but you can find this if you know where to look)

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#133

Post by trgn »

tyingq wrote: post #95
dcolkitt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the effects of any intoxicant are culturally constructed. Alcohol is widely known for causing aggression, but this effect doesn’t seem to exist in cultures without that association. Nor does it exist in double-blind studies, yet the placebo group becomes more aggressive. You can start with two chemically identical intoxicants, and either by marketing or random path dependencies one gains a reputation in the s…

I agree that the gin->mean, whisky->emotional, etc, is all bunk. But I'm still convinced there's a link between alcohol and violence. If nothing else, the lowered cognitive function and reduced inhibition would mean more opportunity to be angry, and less self control. Like, a drunk person might misinterpret someone accidentally bumping into them as aggression. And would be less likely to suppress the urge to respond…

You're describing the stereotype of a mean drunk. In reality, there's also the happy or the sentimental drunk. They might just laugh it off or smile big and hug the person bumping into them.

For sure, alcohol reduces inhibitions. If you're a naturally chip-on-the-shoulder kind of person, alcohol will turn you into a certified jerk. Alcohol can turn other kinds of people into lovable fools as well though.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#134

Post by JudasGoat »

From what I read, the P2P method isn't new. "Preisler, who works at an electroplating factory and has been arrested twice in the U.S. for his work with methamphetamine, says he isn't surprised traffickers have turned to P2P.

"P2P is old school," he said. "Hell, I used to cook by that route circa 1980."

The fight has come full circle. In the 1980s, the U.S. government severely restricted access to P2P seeking to curtail methamphetamine production. Meth makers shifted to ephedrine, which could be found in common cold remedies. When authorities cracked down on ephedrine, they switched to pseudoephedrine, the active ingredient in Sudafed and other decongestants." https://www.cleveland.com/world/2009/12/old_school_meth_meth...

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#135

Post by theragra »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #17
edgyquant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a similar post that claimed the new meth caused psychosis and hallucinations, etc. I don’t know much about meth itself but I do know about Adderall. When you take the normal dose (10-30mg) it can cause some euphoria but for the most part it helps you focus, gives energy (makes you more happy, talkative.) But when it is abused (60+mg) it can cause serious psychosis with all kinds of mental side effects. I image…

Yeah it's all very straightforward when you look at usage patterns. Often meth abusers will smoke multiple points across a day (a point = 100mg). As a result they stay awake for days straight, don't eat, and often will engage in enormously risky sexual behavior (this is the dirty secret of AIDS btw...it arose in the context of the "party and play" gay subculture where people would smoke meth or other drugs and have s…

My somewhat large reading about this and some real life knowledge says this is a very true POV.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#136

Post by gavinray »

cyounkins wrote: post #125

Can anyone comment on how producers could be isolating the the 'd' enantiomer? Are they using enzymes? Steve Mould has a great video [1] on homochirality in nature and says, "Why are all the sugar molecules that you buy from the shops right-handed? ... If you were to make some sugar for yourself in a chemistry lab by mixing some chemicals together, you would get a 50/50 mix of left-handed sugar and right-handed sugar…

Methamphetamine synthesized from pseudoephedrine gives enantiomerically pure Dextro-methamphetamine.

Phenylacetone synthesis yields racemic methamphetamine.

You can actually use a laptop screen, and polarized sunglass lenses to check the optical rotation at home, cheap polarimeter.

As far as purifying enantiomer with amphetamine and methamphetamine goes:

It can be done relatively easily with just D-tartaric Acid.

Look up "Procedures for the Resolution of Racemic Amphetamines"

https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.res...

I do not believe this practice is in use in illicit drug manufacture. There's no economic incentive and it requires some braincells.

From "Selective Crystallization of Methamphetamine with d-Tartaric Acid:"

  Phenylisopropylmethylamine was resolved by treatment with 0.4-6 moles of dextro tartaric acid in water or aqueous ethanol containing 0.4-6 moles hydrogen chloride.

  A mixture of phenylisopropylmethylamine 150, d-tartaric acid 82.5, and H2O 330 g was treated with HCl to pH 4 to deposit 120 g L-phenylisopropylmethylamine-d-tartrate salt, which gave 88 g L-phenylisopropylmethylamine. The D-enantiomer (58 g as the HCl salt) was isolated from the filtrate.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#137

Post by lamontcg »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #52
stcredzero wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought someone had decided to be edgy, and named their project, "meth"!

On MacOS I use an app called Amphetamine to prevent my computer from sleeping. I got a real kick out of that. I got a further kick when I learned that Amphetamine was the successor to the earlier version, which was called Caffeine.

Apple, of course, was not amused by that name:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25618245

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#138

Post by e9 »

dynm wrote: post #2

Around a week ago, I came across this link here on HN that suggested that there's a new form of meth: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28938888 The theory is that new meth is based on a synthesis using a chemical called P2P rather than the old synthesis that used ephedrine. There are claims that this new form of meth is chemically different in some what that started creating schizophrenia around 2017. However, wh…

It’s also possible that the impurities themselves were making it easier on the body(for whatever reason they could signal liver to produce more enzymes that were the ones to break down meth or clear it’s harmful metabolites etc)

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#139

Post by gavinray »

gpcr1949 wrote: post #132
cyounkins wrote: post #125

Can anyone comment on how producers could be isolating the the 'd' enantiomer? Are they using enzymes? Steve Mould has a great video [1] on homochirality in nature and says, "Why are all the sugar molecules that you buy from the shops right-handed? ... If you were to make some sugar for yourself in a chemistry lab by mixing some chemicals together, you would get a 50/50 mix of left-handed sugar and right-handed sugar…

They are most likely using resolution via the Pope–Peachey Method. There was supporting evidence found in a laboratory in Guadalajara[0]. It is possible to do asymmetric reductive amination using enzymes but this is out of the scope of clandestine producers. Likewise a chemical and not enzymatic asymmetric reductive amination would be easy in a bench lab, probably to expensive and impractical in a clandestine setting…

I did not know it had a name. TIL.

I will back the Tartaric Acid hypothesis. If it's being done, this is the only way it makes sense. It requires nearly nothing but the D-Tartaric Acid and Ethanol/Methanol + basic glassware.

Disclaimer: Am not a chemist.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#140

Post by novok »

sneak wrote: post #89
ceejayoz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in the US; you can buy it without a prescription, but you have to have your ID logged.

A few pharmacies weren't set up to take either a foreign ID or a US passport when the program started. I ended up just buying it on Postmates, delivered, no ID check.

I'm guessing your courier got ID checked.
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