Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#191

Post by lettergram » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

dmschulman wrote: post #187

lettergram wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misread, I said “alternative treatments”, there definitely can be alternative treatment methods to the main method. For instance, some people can’t take Tylenol, so they take Ibuprofen. It’s an alternative treatment to handle pain. I understand what you’re referring in terms of “alternative medicine”, but that’s it’s own genre.

"Alternative treatment" implies an unapproved, off-label use. Maybe you meant "promising therapeutic" or something along those lines? Throwing around the term "alternative" is dicey, especially in a world where people take advice about COVID vaccines and "alternative treatments" from podcasts hosted by former comedians. Once enough studies have been done, this off-label use for fluvoxamine will likely be blessed by t…

First define the terms, therapeutic and treatment have effectively the same meanings.

https://www.askdifference.com/therapy-vs-treatment/

Joe rogan explained what his doc gave him. He’s also had multiple doctors and researchers on his show providing information regarding treatments they are attempting. Frankly, Ivermectin and the like have more research than the vaccine, they’ve been deployed for longer and at least passed phase 1 trials, which the vaccine has not (only preliminary results).

https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/clini...

In terms of “off-label” drugs, the FDA approval process is there to protect against liability. Effectively, the government accepts some liability and in return medical companies get some protections. It’s highly likely you’ve taken drugs “off label” yourself.

https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/medication-educatio...

Thus far, this research is promising. Similar to other treatments / therapeutics to covid19, and it has a known risk profile. Making it a potentially better alternative to the standard approach (stay hydrated if infected and vaccinate ahead of time if possible)

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#192

Post by nottorp » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

AzzieElbab wrote: post #169

nottorp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what my first thought was. Treating a viral infection with an anti depressant means to me that you just won't notice how sick you are.

In that case alcohol would do the job just as well

Probably. At least until the hangover.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#193

Post by randcraw » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

po1nt wrote: post #84

I'm not pharmacist or some medical expert but I feel like there is a new drug that promises Covid19 treatment every week.

But few are pills. Most require daily injections for a week or more. That's a lot more inconvenient and (usually) more expensive, especially for folks who live far from a clinic.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#194

Post by citboin » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

johnisgood wrote: post #171

argonaut wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would caution against anyone supplementing with NAC for general health reasons (e.g. other than a specific condition like bronchitis). In mice, very high doses of NAC causes tumors to form. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/n-acetyl-cysteine-... More broadly, there is a lot of emerging evidence against directly taking antioxidant supplements. For example, it is well established that antioxidant supplementat…

I am not sure how well known it is, but I already have known this. Immunostimulants are not necessary a healthy thing either, especially not for people with an autoimmune disorder. It can cause flare-ups for example. There is a case of a woman whose condition deteriorated rapidly after having consumed some common herbs and died within a day or two. I think she had MS. Another example: it has been known that many subs…

“ There is a case of a woman whose condition deteriorated rapidly after having consumed some common herbs and died within a day or two. I think she had MS.”

I have M.S. What herbs did she take?

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#195

Post by philjohn » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

_ywdj wrote: post #44

From my own experience I can very much believe an SSRI could have an effect on the immune system and/or the respiratory system. I was a heavy cigarette smoker in my 20s, and over those years, I experienced worsening asthma and also worsening anxiety and depression. Eventually I was prescribed an SSRI (Zoloft), and found that not only did my mood change, my asthma completely abated, even though I was still smoking jus…

Citralopam is also a mild antihistamine - so not beyond the realms of possibility.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#196

Post by twofornone » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

nuerow wrote: post #175

honkdaddy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very helpful to just describe a study you simply recall based on memory. If you have an actual link to it, myself and others may take you more seriously.

> It's not very helpful to just describe a study you simply recall based on memory. Actually it is. The whole point of that was to illustrate the importance of actually looking into what these papers actually said, if they exist at all, instead of pulling the appeal to authority card with numbers pulled out of thin air. The OP asserted that ivermectin worked. He proceeded to state that 60 papers report it. Well... Wh…

Are you being intentionally obtuse? I linked you a compendium of 60 papers. Surely you can cherry pick one or two and claim poor quality.

>I couldn't help but notice your use of purposely vague and misleading weasel words such as "positive effect".

This isn't a weasel word, this is exactly the correct term to capture the uncertainty considering that there has to my knowledge not been a large scale double blind RCT. But there are, once again, over 60 studies showing positive effect which, individually, are not absolute proof that the medicine works, but together clearly show promise. Your bias is rather extreme and frankly I don't appreciate your dishonest insinuation that I am somehow arguing in bad faith. Again, I linked a collection of more than 60 positive studies. It is unlikely that every one is poor quality and/or fraudulent.

Here is the link again[0], maybe you could actually click the link before responding, as you should have done previously. And yes, I've read a number of them. I can also provide the following [1] which suggests (in silico) the mechanism of action of ivermectin is inhibition of protease, which is the target enzyme of at least one other drug under development by pfizer for treatment of covid.

If you think "positive effect" is a weasel word then perhaps you do not understand the scientific process. I'm not claiming with certainty that ivermectin works, only that in light of, again, some 60 studies showing positive effect, inneffectiveness is unlikely. While you check these sources, please also check your rabid bias.

[0]ivmmeta.com

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#197

Post by phreeza » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #46

Glad to see this being spoken about! I’ve been assisting with data analysis for an eclectic group of people (who funded this study). Been really disheartening to watch the politics around alternative treatments. Personally, I expect this to be attacked as well, but am hopeful! The stuff really does seem effective, particularly when combined with other drugs...

I've developed a sort of morbid curiosity around how everything now gets politicized. Looking at the comments here, it seems like it is currently up in the air. I can see it going at least two ways: the way of invermectin, where it is ridiculed by blue tribe and favoured by red, or the opposite could happen due to the antidepressant/sexual dysfunction angle, it may be demonized by the red tribe (e.g. as part of a scheme to turn population into sheep and curb reproduction) but hailed as an alternative that actually works to invermectin by the blue tribe.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#198

Post by yonaguska » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

FLCCC and doctors now labelled quacks have been pushing this for months.

Clinical successes of alternative, outpatient treatments have been directly disparaged by the FDA. I have zero trust in the institutions meant to protect us.

Dr. Pierre Kory has been using this for months to treat both long-covid patients as well as vaccine injured patients.

I hate to bring this stuff up on a technical forum like this, but some very disgusting incentives are at play with our healthcare system and the pharmaceutical industry, that need correction.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#199

Post by UncleMeat » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

useragent86 wrote: post #149

chris11 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are people so crazy about this drug? It looks to be a combination of right wing political commentators and a fringe anti-vax group. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2021/08/30/no-iv... https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/14310404563648102...

It's disturbing how this topic is treated like a tribalistic team sport. Comments like yours seem to follow "Rules for Radicals"[0], such as rules 5 and, especially, 13: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage." "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." You pr…

You can apply your comment in a weaponized way.

Experts say one thing.

Another group says a different thing.

When people say that the other group is not acting rationally, they respond with your post and claim that the experts are being mean.

Ivermectin is only being treated like a tribalistic team sport by the people who aren't experts.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#200

Post by chiefalchemist » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

becuzThrowaway wrote: post #184

chiefalchemist wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not be an alternative drug but it's certainly an alternative narrative. The momentum for the jab is all but unstoppable at this point. The continued talk of jab passports, and such. Once a narrative becomes normalized it's difficult to change. Note: This isn't a political statement or criticism. It's Human Comms and Human Behaviour 101.

>This isn't a political statement or criticism. It's Human Comms and Human Behaviour 101. Seems pretty political to me.

Then clearly you need to read more. I suggest starting with "Power for All." Words matter. They create worlds. Narratives matter. They enable myths to persist.

Again. These are properties of human behavior.

https://www.powerforallbook.com/