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Where have all the insects gone?

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Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#161

Post by Jensson »

revolvingocelot wrote: post #143
oofabz wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>nationalised industry has a chance of properly dealing with externalities Do you know the history of the Soviet whaling program? They killed more whales for industry than the West.

Yes, yes, the USSR was bad. If I allow you to define "nationalised industry" as "something bad the Soviets/CCP/Venezuelans did", then of course it's bad. Contrast that to the concept of a Crown corporation in Canada, which "provide services required by the public that otherwise would not be economically viable as a private enterprise or that do not fit exactly within the scope of any ministry." [0] They can do things…

> Contrast that to the concept of a Crown corporation in Canada

Crown corporation in Canada isn't running any industries though, it is just an organization for providing government services and isn't any different than a typical department of education or post or government rails etc.

I'm sure most agree with you that there are areas best served by government run organizations. Crown corporation just operates in such areas, so it wouldn't change peoples views on what services a government should run at all.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#162

Post by lotsofpulp »

robocat wrote: post #127
thisiscorrect wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could that be explained by improved aerodynamics of cars now compared to then? Has that been studied?

Research says no: “The research included vintage cars up to 70 years old to see if their less aerodynamic shape meant they killed more bugs, but it found that modern cars actually hit slightly more insects.” From https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/12/car-spla... (Second hand comment from a journalist; actual research results may vary).

Is it possible for there to be so many more vehicles than decades before that the number of insects hitting each car is much less?

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#163

Post by [deleted] »

thisiscorrect wrote: post #49
jerry1979 wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, while driving along Minnesota's segment of I94 in the '90s, one would have to stop and scrape the bugs off the front window and grill. Today, this is no longer a problem.

Could that be explained by improved aerodynamics of cars now compared to then? Has that been studied?

[deleted]

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#164

Post by rootusrootus »

tw04 wrote: post #20
rootusrootus wrote: post #5

Sometimes I don't know what to believe. Wasn't there a counterpoint posted here on HN a while back? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24133315

Without the full article it's tough to say, but my refute would be about my local environment. There has absolutely been a MASSIVE decline in NATIVE insects (among other things). Instead we have more asian beetles, emerald ash borers, and japanese beetles than you can shake a stick at. So while yes, technically the numbers may remain neutral, I'm not sure we can call it a healthy distribution.

No disrespect, but I'd feel more comfortable if the rebuttal was based on science and not an individual anecdote from some unknown individual on HN :)

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#166

Post by revolvingocelot »

Jensson wrote: post #161
revolvingocelot wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes, the USSR was bad. If I allow you to define "nationalised industry" as "something bad the Soviets/CCP/Venezuelans did", then of course it's bad. Contrast that to the concept of a Crown corporation in Canada, which "provide services required by the public that otherwise would not be economically viable as a private enterprise or that do not fit exactly within the scope of any ministry." [0] They can do things…

> Contrast that to the concept of a Crown corporation in Canada Crown corporation in Canada isn't running any industries though, it is just an organization for providing government services and isn't any different than a typical department of education or post or government rails etc. I'm sure most agree with you that there are areas best served by government run organizations. Crown corporation just operates in such…

>Crown corporation in Canada isn't running any industries though, it is just an organization for providing government services and isn't any different than a typical department of education or post or government rails etc.

An oil extraction and distribution company isn't an industry? I also suggest you read the second link in the grandparent: Nova Chemicals, Yara Belle Plaine, PotashCorp, all the resource extraction corps in Saskatchewan...

Also, that's strictly wrong -- Crown corporations could operate in any sphere of business at all, so long as the government chose to endow them to do so. Furthermore, some Crown corporations must deal with real physical externalities arising as a consequence of their operations, like Petro-Canada, which (before it was sold off for a song to already-rich people) extracted real physical oil in Alberta, and dealt with the real physical externalities in a much MUCH *MUCH* more accountable way.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#167

Post by nickff »

ashtonkem wrote: post #155
nickff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I see you’re more interested in hashing out the communism vs. capitalism thing." No, I just think that most of your previous post was wrong. edit: I see that you added to your post: > "0 - Economists generally think that removing these externalities are good for the market. But this runs contrary to the anti-regulation attitude currently in vogue. " Where have regulations decreased over the medium to long-term (5+…

> Where have regulations decreased over the medium to long-term (5+ years)? I can't think of any (stable) country which has acted in an anti-regulatory way; do you have any specific examples? This is genuinely quite baffling to me. Ignoring the fact that de-regulation has been an explicit plank of the GOP for my entire life, the US deregulated a ton of stuff since the Reagan era. Airlines, trucking, labor, and the fi…

I would agree that many specific regulations in the USA have been reduced/eliminated, but overall regulations have steadily increased throughout the last 90+ years. You may be able to pick out one year that they decreased overall (though I can't), but I doubt you can find a 5-year period over which they've decreased (by any measure).

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#168

Post by jonnycomputer »

srcmap wrote: post #160
jonnycomputer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, but in California's Central Valley.

Remember need to scrape off bugs from windshield after each trip thru I5 ~10 years ago. No need to do that anymore..... On the other hand, in my back yard, I grow a lot veggi, strawberry with worm casting from kitchen scraps. I do still lot of insects. A lot of birds nested around my house. Produce 10-15 young birds. I found a very cool looking giant tomato worm a size of my biggest finger. It ate half of (7 ft heigh…

A lot of those drives of mine were on highways between planted fields.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#169

Post by dnautics »

yeetaccount wrote: post #80
thisiscorrect wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could that be explained by improved aerodynamics of cars now compared to then? Has that been studied?

We’re seeing a comparable decline in birds that depend on them for food, so probably not. That said, it’s fun to imagine that we just selected against insects that hang out by the highway.

that wouldn't be strange. I remember a friend telling me about scientists who visited a remote place twice and seeing fungus-caused dieoffs the second time and he immediately claimed that it was global warming. My first thought was "those bastard scientists brought the fungus in" (I've hiked through remote endemic-plant forests and they tell you to scrub yourself vigorously on your way in to prevent tracking non-native plant seeds)

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#170

Post by karlkatzke »

inter_netuser wrote: post #98
csmoak wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just drove across the US (down the east coast, across the south, up the Rockies) and found I had to do this only after driving across Texas.

meaning bugs are doing well in Texas, but not nowhere else? Really weird

People aren't as densely packed in most parts of Texas, so it might be explainable that way. A lot of the state is also hay fields instead of food crops that are more intensively controlled for pests.

But I've noticed a big change in Texas in recent years. The last two years I haven't had to use pesticide in my residential vegetable garden. I've had to control for mold/fungal infections, but not for insects. And I live up against a nature preserve and try to keep most of my property as natural as possible.

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